§
Lords amendment: No. 42, in page 8, line 21, leave out "fails to give information reasonably required by the authority" and insert
knowingly withholds information which the authority have reasonably required him to give".
§ Mr. Stephen RossI beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
This is purely a self-explanatory drafting amendment.
§ Mr. SainsburyThe hon. Gentleman says that the amendment is self-explantory. Perhaps it is, because it is, unfortunately, five minutes past four in the morning, but it is not as self-explanatory to me as it should be. It seems to me that it significantly weakens the effect of the clause, which introduces I think necessary but, I hope, to be seldom used penalties for misleading the housing authority, particularly in the matter of not giving it information. The words
failing to give information reasonably requiredare surely clearer.Perhaps I may quote an example. If the couple to whom my hon. Friend the Member for Hornsey (Mr. Rossi) referred had a cottage somewhere and failed to give information about it to the housing authority in the Isle of Wight, there would be no question that they had failed
to give information reasonably requiredabout the accommodation available to them. But inserting the words "knowingly withholds information" seems to make the burden of proof a great deal more difficult for the housing authority, particularly in the word "knowingly". Could the hon. Gentleman explain a little more clearly why the amendment improves rather than weakens this clause?
§ Mr. Stephen RossI gather that this follows a precedent from the Road Traffic Act 1972, which concerns declaration of information given to insurance companies. It does not affect the objectives of the clause but if anything makes it clearer. A failure to give information is not an offence unless that information was knowingly withheld. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will accept that explanation.
§ Mr. George CunninghamI think that the Lords amendment does make the clause clearer, but whether the parallel with the Road Traffic Act is a good one for this purpose I am highly doubtful on the basis of what has been said. Surely the point is that in this case a person is having to apply, volunteer information
| Division No. 230] | AYES | [4.08 a.m. |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Gilbert, Dr John | Owen, Rt Hon Dr David |
| Ashton, Joe | Golding, John | Parry, Robert |
| Bagier, Gordon A. T. | Graham, Ted | Pendry, Tom |
| Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) | Grant, George (Morpeth) | Penhaligon, David |
| Bates, Alf | Hamilton, James (Bothwell) | Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn (Leeds S) |
| Benn, Rt Hon Anthony Wedgwood | Hardy, Peter | Roper, John |
| Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N) | Harper, Joseph | Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight) |
| Bishop, Rt Hon Edward | Hooson, Emlyn | Skinner, Dennis |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Horam, John | Small, William |
| Booth, Rt Hon Albert | Huckfield, Les | Smith, John (N Lanarkshire) |
| Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) | Hunter, Adam | Snape, Peter |
| Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W) | Irving, Rt Hon S. (Dartford) | Spearing, Nigel |
| Canavan, Dennis | Jackson, Miss Margaret (Lincoln) | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Cocks, Rt Hon Michael (Bristol S) | John, Brynmor | Stallard, A. W. |
| Cohen, Stanley | Jones, Barry (East Flint) | Stoddart, David |
| Coleman, Donald | Judd, Frank | Stott, Roger |
| Cook, Robin F. (Edin C) | Kaufman, Gerald | Strang, Gavin |
| Cowans, Harry | Kerr, Russell | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton W) |
| Cox, Thomas (Tooting) | Leadbitter, Ted | Thomas, Mike (Newcastle E) |
| Crawshaw, Richard | McElhone, Frank | Tinn, James |
| Crowther, Stan (Rotherham) | MacFarquhar, Roderick | Urwin, T. W. |
| Cunningham, Dr J. (Whiteh) | McGuire, Michael (Ince) | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne V) |
| Davidson, Arthur | MacKenzie, Rt Hon Gregor | Walker, Harold (Doncaster) |
| Deakins, Eric | Madden, Max | Ward, Michael |
| Dean, Joseph (Leeds West) | Mahon, Simon | White, Frank R. (Bury) |
| Dempsey, James | Mallalieu, J. P. W. | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Dormand, J. D. | Marks, Kenneth | Woodall, Alec |
| Douglas-Mann, Bruce | Millan. Rt Hon Bruce | Wrigglesworth, Ian |
| Duffy, A. E. P. | Miller, Dr M. S. (E Kilbride) | Young, David (Bolton E) |
| Eadie, Alex | Molloy, William | |
| Ellis, Tom (Wrexham) | Moyle, Roland | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Ewing, Harry (Stirling) | Noble, Mike | Mr. Richard Wainwright and |
| Foot, Rt Hon Michael | O'Halloran, Michael | Mr. A. J. Beith. |
| Freeson, Reginald |
| NOES | ||
| Durant, Tony | ||
| TELLERS FOR THE NOES: | ||
| Mr. Tim Sainsbury and | ||
| Mr. Michael Morris. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Lords Amendment No. 43 agreed to.
892§ and make a claim. I think that the hon. Member for Hove (Mr. Sainsbury), who objected to the weakening of the provision, was right to do so. Some false claims will not be caught by the amended language but they would have been caught by the previous language.
§ Mr. Stephen RossI can only add that there were people in this House who felt that the clause was perhaps a bit too tough as originally drafted. I am told that the amended language will be perfectly adequate.
§ Question put, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 96, Noes 1.