HC Deb 14 July 1977 vol 935 cc775-7
Q1. Mr. David Hunt

asked the Prime Minister which parts of the Urban Deprivation Unit arc based in the Home Office; and which have been transferred to the Department of the Environment, specifying how many staff are in each part and the annual cost of each part.

The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)

I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Stechford (Mr. MacKay) on 7th July.

Mr. Hunt

Is the Prime Minister aware that this unit is one of many financed by the Government appointed to study urban problems and that nothing is ever published of what they report? At a time when there is a need for a wider and more fundamental appraisal of the problems in areas such as Merseyside, what has happened to the comprehensive community programme and other imaginative ideas?

The Prime Minister

This unit was specifically set up by Lord Carr, when he was Home Secretary, for the purpose of study and research into a problem that has baffled a great many people since the end of the war. I do not think that we should underrate the need for it.

The urban programme, together with the much larger resources that the Government are now devoting to it—£125 million a year—is the result of some of those studies. However, as one who was partially responsible for setting one of them up, I must say that not all the experiments have been uniformly successful.

Mr. Loyden

Will my right hon. Friend look at the question of urban aid virtually being used on purely capital projects? The point made by the hon. Member for Wirral (Mr. Hunt) is valid to the whole concept of urban aid.

The Prime Minister

I think that my hon. Friend underrates its value. I understand that 178 local authorities are now taking part in the programme. The projects include such matters as day nurseries, nursery schools and classes, lunch clubs and day centres for the elderly, adventure playgrounds, playgroups, housing aid centres, community centres, legal advice centres and so on. There are others. That is an indication of the value of the enterprises that are being conducted. Some of them are capital projects and others involve a great deal of use of staff.

Mr. Steen

Can the Prime Minister explain why the findings of the community development project that he launched nine years ago, which cost more than£5 million and was aimed at discovering the real problems of urban deprivation, are still being kept secret?

The Prime Minister

No, I could not explain that. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will put down a Question on that matter to the Home Secretary. I was trying to deal with the reason for the transfer of the unit. I have not gone into the matter in detail. The community development project was the brainchild of a remarkable civil servant, Derek Morrell, who is now dead. I think that it deserved a better fate than it got. Its fate lay more in the hands of those who were carrying it out than in the mind of the originator.