HC Deb 11 July 1977 vol 935 cc26-8
35. Mr. Adley

asked the Lord President of the Council what further consideration he is giving to holding referenda in Scotland and Wales on devolution for both countries prior to the introduction of legislation; and if he will make a statement.

The Minister of State, Privy Council Office (Mr. John Smith)

I have nothing to add to the reply my right hon. Friend gave my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson) on 14th June.

Mr. Adley

Is the Minister still saying that the Government are unable to devise a suitable question unless it is attached to a specific legislative proposal? Does he remain fully satisfied that he is in possession of accurate knowledge about the views of the people of Scotland on this question?

Mr. Smith

I make a firm judgment, which is based on some direct experience of their views on the desirability of devolution as many of them are my own constituents. The hon. Gentleman has suggested on previous occasions and in this Question that there might be what is called a pre-Bill referendum. The objections that we have previously outlined about the imprecise nature of the question and the effect that subsequent parliamentary amendments would have in the passage of the legislation still remain compelling.

36. Mr. Tim Renton

asked the Lord President of the Council whether he is considering making the system of regional list voting applicable to the Assemblies under the devolution Bill.

Mr. John Smith

I have nothing to add to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 23rd March.

Mr. Renton

Will the Minister of State ask his right hon. Friend the Lord President whether he voted against the Bill on direct elections because he does not believe in Parliaments and Assemblies—other than Westminster—or because he does not believe in proportional representation, or both?

Mr. Smith

I do not think that that matter arises as a proper supplementary question to the Question put down by the hon. Gentleman. If he reflects on the Question, he will realise the absurdity of suggesting the regional list system for any devolved Assembly.

37. Mr. Reid

asked the Lord President of the Council if he will make a further statement on the Government's policy with regard to devolution.

Mr. John Smith

I have nothing to add to my right hon. Friend's statement to the House on 14th June.

Mr. Reid

When is the promised paper on fiscal powers for the Assemblies to be published? Does the Minister accept that it is possible to devolve such powers, as in Europe and the United States, if the will exists? Why should the Assemblies not have responsibility for raising as well as spending money?

Mr. Smith

I think that the hon. Gentleman is anticipating a lot of the arguments which will take place during the passage of the legislation in the next Session of Parliament. There will be a statement on devolution before the House rises for the Summer Recess. On the question of fiscal policy, I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should be careful about drawing parallels with systems which are quite unlike our own.