HC Deb 11 July 1977 vol 935 cc22-3
29. Mr. Gow

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what was the number of civil servants on the latest available date; and what was the number, on a comparable basis, on 1st March 1974.

Mr. Charles R. Morris

Civil Service numbers are published in the "Monthly Digest of Statistics", copies of which are available in the Library. The latest figures show that the number of civil servants on 1st April 1977 was 745,600. On 1st March 1974 the comparable figure was 697,100.

Mr. Gow

What steps will the hon. Gentleman and the Government take to reduce the disquieting increase in the number of wealth consumers and expand the number of wealth creators?

Mr. Morris

The hon. Gentleman seems to have overlooked the statement made in July of last year in which we indicated that the Government were concerned about public expenditure on Government administration and were introducing reductions in the amount of public expenditure on manpower. It is envisaged that the reductions that were announced at that time will reduce the Civil Service by about 46,000—namely, 26,000 in the whole of the Civil Departments and about 20,000 in the Ministry of Defence.

Mr. George Cunningham

May I ask the Government not to fix their mind too rigidly on the numbers of civil servants, bearing in mind that there are ways of increasing revenue, for example, which are highly desirable but can take place and produce a net benefit to the Exchequer only if we are prepared to contemplate an increase in respect of those particular items?

Mr. Morris

I certainly accept the point made by my hon. Friend. I hope that he and the House accept that the size of the Civil Service is related to the tasks that the House gives it to undertake.

Mr. Hayhoe

Will the Minister say whether there has been an increase in the numbers employed by the hived-off agencies which used to be considered as part of the Civil Service—for example, the Manpower Services Commission and such bodies—in addition to this substantial increase in the number of civil servants?

Mr. Morris

I do not have the figures for individual Government agencies immediately at my finger-tips, but I shall be happy to provide them for the hon. Gentleman.