TUC (Hansard, 7 July 1977)

§ Q2. Mr. Bidwell
asked the Prime Minister when he next expects to meet the TUC.

§ The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mr. Corbett) on 3rd February.

§ Mr. Bidwell
Due to the hilarity of the House I did not quite hear what my right hon. Friend said. But in anticipation of what he might have said in reply to my Question, may I ask my right hon. Friend 1419 whether he agrees that the decision of my union, the Transport and General Workers' Union, yesterday puts the Labour movement in a new phase? Will my right hon. Friend, as well as the Chancellor of the Exchequer, be seeing the trade union leaders to discuss the situation? Does he agree that the trade union movement is far from being a wild, woolly or greedy movement but that it is seriously worried about the prices explosion and about the necessity of preserving its standard of living? My right hon. Friend has a lot going for him, but our movement's unity will be preserved on the basis of its Socialist understanding—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman is taking the Question Time of other hon. Members. Mr. Bidwell, to finish.

§ Mr. Bidwell
I would suggest to my right hon. Friend that not least of what is going for him is the incapacity of the Leader of the Opposition. I have hitherto raised a question with my right hon. Friend—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The Prime Minister.

§ The Prime Minister
I agree that the decisions that have been taken, which affect the future of any agreement between the trade unions and the Labour Party, mean that we are entering a new phase. The Government will assume their responsibilities in this regard, but responsibilities in co-operation with the trade union movement. We should not assume that because these decisions have been taken there is no prospect of co-operation or collaboration between us.
Next week, the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be seeing some of the members of the TUC. The Cabinet will then consider the result of those discussions and we shall come forward to the House with our proposals, endeavouring as far as we can to carry with us all those who care about overcoming inflation and about ensuring that we get a steady expansion of our economy. From our conversations with members of the TUC I believe that it is possible to do that.

§ Mr. David Steel
Does the Prime Minister agree with what Jack Jones said last night, namely, that the 12-month gap between pay rises under phase 2 was a 1420 promise made by the trade union movement to this Government? If so, does the right hon. Gentleman expect it to be kept?

§ The Prime Minister
Yes. The 12-month gap was one of the early parts of the negotiations that have been going on. I am certain that the TUC will want to maintain that 12-month interval if it is at all possible. [Interruption.] The TUC is the servant of its members, in the end. This only goes to show the ambivalence of the Opposition, who are never quite sure whether the trade union leaders have too much power or too little. At some time they had better make up their mind.
I am quite certain that the leaders of the TUC will endeavour to maintain this 12-month period. That would be of great help to us, because the last settlement will not be made for several months yet.

§ Mr. Molloy
When my right hon. Friend meets the trade union leaders will he make it clear to them how absolutely opposed the Leader of the Opposition and many of her hon. Friends are to any form of price control? Some Conservatives are advocating a massive wage explosion and encouraging the trade unions to get involved in it. If that brings about any form of danger for the progress that this country is now making, they will then blame the trade union movement for it.

§ The Prime Minister
I am sure that the Conservative Party would like to ride to power on the back of every dissatisfied element in the country. What I have noticed is the extraordinary and unholy alliance between the Morning Star and the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph), who seems to be joining this Communist band-wagon, about which his leader complains so much.

§ Mr. Donald Stewart
Why should the Prime Minister assume or expect the co-operation of the trade union movement, since he is aware that when the alleged social contract was cobbled together there was an implied remark that when wages were frozen prices would also be frozen? The wages part of that was carried out, but prices were allowed to escalate.

§ The Prime Minister
No undertaking of that sort was ever given. What was said was that there would be selective 1421 control of prices and food subsidies, and that took place. But the trade union movement is anxious that there should be good sense and sobriety in this matter. I am not speaking of everyone in the trade union movement, but as a whole it is concerned about this because it is as deeply concerned as anyone about the consequences of a return to 1973–74, when there were wage claims and settlements of 30 per cent, and prices went up by about the same amount. The trade union movement can see the consequences of that as well as the next man.