HC Deb 04 July 1977 vol 934 cc876-9
33. Mr. Canavan

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she intends to introduce any additional measures for overseas development, following the Commonwealth Leaders' Conference in June.

39. Mr. Raphael Tuck

asked the Minister of Overseas Development when she intends to introduce any additional measures for overseas development and planning following the Commonwealth Conference in June.

Mrs. Hart

In their final communique the Commonwealth Heads of Government outlined a number of ways in which the Commonwealth as a body intends to promote economic and social development among its poorer members. We wholeheartedly endorse these proposals.

The House will recall that at the conference the Prime Minister announced an increase of two-thirds in our pledged contribution to the Commonwealth Fund for Technical Co-operation—to give a ceiling of £3 million for this financial year, 1977–78.

Mr. Canavan

As the provision of more opportunities in education is one of the most meaningful ways by which we can help underdeveloped countries, are there any new initiatives forthcoming to help overseas students, especially from underdeveloped Commonwealth countries, who face the exorbitant increase in tuition fees imposed on them by the Department of Education and Science?

Mrs. Hart

As my hon. Friend will know, students who come here under the student and scholarship system of my Ministry are not affected by the fees increase. However, we are concerned about this matter, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science and I and others are seeking to find a way in which we can resolve some of the undoubted problems which occur with poor students from rich countries or poor students from poor countries who are not covered by my Ministry's programme.

Mr. Tuck

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of us were greatly distressed, as I am sure she was, at the cut of £50 million last November in the United Kingdom aid programme? Can she tell the House when it is likely to be restored to its previous level?

Mrs. Hart

I wish that I could tell my hon. Friend that it will be restored immediately, but I am afraid that I cannot. As he will know, the question of public expenditure on this programme, as on others, will be falling for collective consideration in the months ahead. I trust that a full recognition of the self-interest of Britain and of other factors will enable the cut to be restored.

Mr. Luce

Did not the Commonwealth leaders recognise the important rôle to be played by Western private investment in helping to improve the standard of living in developing countries? What action is the right hon. Lady taking to facilitate and encourage this?

Mrs. Hart

The hon. Gentleman must be aware from everything I have said in the House on this subject that I regard this as a matter for a direct relationship between the developing countries and private investors. That is the best way to approach it.

Mr. Greville Janner

In view of the denunciation by the Commonwealth leaders of the régime in Uganda, can my right hon. Friend give two assurances: first, that there will be no question of any aid, direct or indirect, going to Uganda during the rule of the present murderous régime, and, secondly, that she will consult the Foreign Secretary and the Secretary of State for Trade in an attempt to stop the indirect aid which Uganda is getting through the current trade going on between the countries?

Mrs. Hart

On my hon. and learned Friend's second point, as he may be aware, such consultations are already continuing. There are great obstacles, as I think he knows. Nevertheless, we are seeking to see what can be done.

On my hon. and learned Friend's first point, no United Kingdom aid has gone to Uganda for, I think, five years. It is perhaps worth mentioning that at the time when President Amin succeeded President Obote—I do not say this in any sense of reproach to hon. Members opposite—there was a considerable welcome from Conservative Members. Later they learned better. Now we can say that we are all completely united in condemning what is happening in Uganda.

Mr. Tapsell

May I, on behalf of the Opposition, totally reject what the right hon. Lady has just said?

Mrs. Hart

The hon. Gentleman was not around at the time of the debates which took place then. I recall the precise debate in which—[Interruption.] Perhaps the hon. Gentleman was not present in the Chamber at the time. I recall the precise debate in which Conservative speakers welcomed what had happened in Uganda.

Mr. Tapsell rose—

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Forman. Question No. 35.

Later—

Mr. Kinnock

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In the course of a previous exchange in questions to my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, the hon. Member for Horncastle (Mr. Tapsell) gave the impression that the previous Administration had not received the rule of President Amin with enthusiasm, whereas I have a clear memory of the fact that they received it with ecstasy, in spite of his record of being a murderer throughout his military career. In the interests of good order of the House, could an opportunity be provided for the hon. Gentleman to withdraw his remark?

Mr. Speaker

It is not a point of order, but I will allow the hon. Member for Horncastle (Mr. Tapsell) the opportunity to speak.

Mr. Tapsell

I sought to catch your eye, Mr. Speaker, on a second occasion. The right hon. Lady said that I had not been around while all these matters were discussed. I have been a Member of this House for 18 years and have taken an intense interest in these subjects. I visited President Amin shortly after he became President of Uganda. On my return I saw the then Conservative Foreign Minister and told him that I thought President Amin was an exceedingly dangerous man who would cause nothing but tragedy for Uganda.

Mrs. Hart rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I allowed the hon. Member for Horncastle to make a point. It was not on a point of order. I felt that it was fair to allow the hon. Gentleman that opportunity.

Mrs. Hart

Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. I was seeking to refer to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend—

Mr. Speaker

It was not a point of order.

Mrs. Hart

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Would an apology from me to the hon. Member for Horncastle (Mr. Tapsell) be permitted? I apologise to him personally because, in the light of what he has said, it is clear that his was one of the voices which counselled against the then current opinion of the British Conservative Government.

Mr. Speaker

Order. That is a nice way in which to begin the week.