Arms Sales

HC Deb 25 January 1977 vol 924 cc1164-7

13. Mr. Litterick

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on his Department's policy on the sale of armaments to Iran.

24. Mr. Robin F. Cook

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on his policy regarding arms sales to countries outwith the NATO Alliance.

Dr. John Gilbert

It is Government policy to consider sales of defence equipment to particular countries in the light of all the political, military, security and financial factors involved and our obligations to our allies.

Mr. Litterick

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the continued and planned sales of such massive quantities of armaments to a Government such as this sadly strengthens our image in the world as a purveyor of armaments to any and every military dictatorship? Does my right hon. Friend agree that this quantity of armaments disturbs the balance of military power in that part of the world and stimulates even greater purchases of armaments by other poverty-stricken Governments in that part of the world, to the detriment of their peoples?

Dr. Gilbert

I cannot accept my hon. Friend's first premise, that the Government supply arms to any and every military dictatorship. I am sure that my hon. Friend will be aware that this country fully observes its commitments under the United Nations embargo covering the sale of arms to both Chile and the Republic of South Africa.

My hon. Friend raised some wider questions. I have considerable sympathy with his view that we would all prefer less developed countries—and, in fact, developed countries—to spend less of their national wealth on armaments and more on goods that are of more peaceful use to their inhabitants.

As my hon. Friend will be aware, President Carter only yesterday said that Vice-President Mondale will be discussing arms sales on his trip to Europe. It would be premature of me to comment any further at this stage.

Mr. Cook

I accept my right hon. Friend's last remark that it would be premature to comment, but can he assure us that the approach from Vice-President Mondale, resulting from President Carter's statement that he intends to give priority abroad to the sale of arms to third world countries, will receive a sympathetic response from the Government?

Dr. Gilbert

It is not for me, without notice, to commit the Prime Minister but I should be very surprised if my right hon. Friend did not receive all Vice-President Mondale's constructive suggestions with a hearty welcome.

Mr. Alan Clark

Surely the only criteria to be applied in these cases is the immediate security of the United Kingdom. Is it not the case that the refusal of arms sales to countries for doctrinaire reasons, regardless of what the United Nations may say, damages employment prospects for many of those in the industries concerned?

Dr. Gilbert

It is true that if the arms trade were to cease there would be employment consequences in the short run for this and every other arms-producing country. On the other hand, those countries would have more money to spend on other things to which one would hope that the firms producing armaments would be able to switch their production.

18. Mr. Newens

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the development of sales of arms by Great Britain to countries in the Third World over the past decade.

Dr. Gilbert

The total value of defence exports from the United Kingdom has in current prices risen from about £150 million in 1966–67 to an estimated £700 million in 1976–77. It has been the policy of successive Governments not to give details of sales of defence equipment to specific countries or groupings of countries.

Mr. Newens

Is it not appalling that when the people of the Third World are so desperately poor and in need of the means of production we should specifically promote to them the means of destruction? If we accept the economic arguments pure and simple, are we not in the same position as the people who would sell arms to gangsters and terrorists?

Dr. Gilbert

As my hon. Friend is aware, it is the right of every sovereign State to buy armaments for its defence. I share my hon. Friend's concern that so many less-developed countries see fit to spend a proportion of their exiguous wealth on armaments rather than on more productive goods for the benefit of their inhabitants.

Mr. Tebbit

Could the Minister persuade the East European and Communist bloc countries to do a little less exporting of arms? For example, fewer Czech rifles in Ulster might be conducive to greater peace within the United Kingdom.

Dr. Gilbert

We should all welcome a reduction in the arms trade, in whichever direction.

Mr. Cook

Will my hon. Friend confirm that one-third of the £700 million to which he referred is accounted for by arms purchased by Iran? Is he aware that at a recent congressional hearing it was said that Iran had more tanks, more aircraft and more helicopters than any other country outside the two super Powers? Is it in the interests of stability in that region for such an enormous military super Power to emerge there?

Dr. Gilbert

One consideration that Her Majesty's Government take into account in approving arms sales to any country is whether the arms would serious jeopardise the balance of power between the countries in the area involved.