HC Deb 17 January 1977 vol 924 cc16-8
11. Mr. Skinner

asked the Secretary of State for Energy when he next expects to meet the National Union of Mineworkers leaders about early retirement.

Mr. Benn

Together with my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Employment and the Chief Secretary, I saw the leaders of the National Union of Mineworkers on 10th January. In view of the agreement that has been reached on early retirement, I have no plans for a further meeting on this issue.

Mr. Skinner

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in my view there is a need for the Government to assist in financing the early retirement scheme, especially bearing in mind the fact that we need to bring in surface workers as well? Is he also aware of the need to provide stocking aid for coke? Following what was said by my hon. Friend the Member for Normanton (Mr. Roberts), will my right hon. Friend make an early announcement about the construction of Drax B?

Mr. Benn

This was one of the issues which I discussed with the National Union of Mineworkers. I was able to point out, and the union accepted, the massive Government contribution to the pension fund, the pneumoconiosis scheme, the Redundant Mineworkers Payment Scheme, coal stocks and even the electricity discount scheme, which is intended to assist in coal burn. Although the NUM would like to have seen a Government contribution, it is not disputed that this cost could be carried by the industry, and, therefore, my discussions with the NUM were on that basis.

Mr. Tom King

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we welcome the agreement on early retirement for underground workers, for which we believe there is a strong case, but that we do not agree with what the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) said about surface workers, which has a much wider implication for many other industries? Although we support the fact that the agreement will be self-financing, will the Secretary of State say what will be the cost of a ton of coal following the agreement? What efforts are the Government making to bring in a productivity scheme to help to pay for these extra benefits?

Mr. Berm

Past experience of the Government telling the mining industry what to do has not been entirely happy. It would have been wiser to allow the NCB and NUM to work out how best they can win coal.

Mr. Skeet

What is the right hon. Gentleman's idea?

Mr. Benn

To work out the best means by which the cost—or most of it—of an early retirement scheme can be carried by the industry. Nobody doubts that it can be carried by the industry. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his welcome to the scheme. To get the retirement age down to 62 when pay policy permits—which is assumed to be in the early part of next year—and then down to the age of 60 for those with 20 years underground, and to provide a £500 lump sum payment and 90 per cent. take-home pay, are notable gains.

The surface workers fall into two categories—those with under 20 years' service underground who have been brought to the surface and about whom there is to be further discussion and those with no underground experience. Everybody recognises that these matters must be seen as part of a wider approach to early retirement, and the TUC has pressed for the subject to be viewed as a wider matter.

Mr. Alexander Wilson

Before my right hon. Friend and the Opposition congratulate themselves on the agreement in relation to early retirement, will he and they await the result of the ballot to be conducted among the miners themselves?

Mr. Benn

Yes, of course. I would not dream of saying anything that bore upon the ballot, except that the NUM executive has decided to recommend the agreement. As one who has been working to bring about earlier retirement for underground workers, I think it would be wrong for me not to record this initial agreement, all of it being subject to a pithead ballot of the miners themselves.