HC Deb 12 January 1977 vol 923 cc1408-10
3. Mr. Rees-Davies

asked the Secretary of State for Transport what recent representations he has received for improving rural bus services.

Mr. Horam

We have received many such representations.

Mr. Rees-Davies

The hon. Gentleman may have received many such representations, but what proposals do the Government have to relax the licensing of buses in selected rural areas or at least to permit the licensing of private operators to give additional services? Do the Government recognise that it is now most urgent to have no further experiments but to prevent further decline in rural bus services? Why have they done precisely nothing about this problem in the past three years?

Mr. Horam

On the contrary, we have done a great deal and I hope that we shall begin to see the signs of our action from Easter, when the first areas of experiments in unconventional rural transport begin. That is the sensible way forward. Trying to make a general relaxation in road traffic licensing laws can result in the baby being thrown out with the bathwater, as has happened in many other countries, and the damage to existing services can be more than the gains made with unconventional means of transport.

Mr. George Rodgers

Will my hon. Friend comment on the formidable cost of getting children to school in rural areas? Is he aware that the cost of getting two or more children two or three miles to school can have a severe impact on households with average or low incomes?

Mr. Horam

I recognise my hon. Friend's important point, but this is a matter for the Secretary of State for Education and Science and local authorities in the first instance and not for my Department.

Sir T. Kitson

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the proposed cuts in rural transport in the North Riding are likely to be very severe in the next few months? Could he encourage local authorities to stay these cuts until the study group to cover the North Riding area and North Devon is set up at Easter?

Mr. Horam

There are a number of experiments taking place in the hon. Gentleman's area. He will know that the Richmond District Council is conducting many interesting experiments, and it will be interesting to see what happens when our experiments are under way, some of which will be partly in conjunction with experiments being run by the Richmond Council. I look forward to them with considerable interest.

Mr. Lipton

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that since the Beeching Report 3,539 railway stations have been closed and that this is having a disastrous effect on the mobility of people in rural areas and making the provision of adequate rural bus services even more important?

Mr. Horam

I take my hon. Friend's point, but since the Question relates specifically to bus services I shall leave my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to deal with rail services.

Mr. Adley

Does the Minister agree that the main hindrance to experiments in the running of new bus services in rural areas is the activities of the traffic commissioners, whose duties were designed to meet the needs of the 1920s and 1930s? Will he consider some of the Conservative transport proposals of 1973? Will he consider whether they can be introduced to remove some of the artificial restrictions on transport experiments, especially in respect of rural bus services?

Mr. Horam

I think that the hon. Gentleman is on to a fair point. The traffic commissioners have lasted for quite a long time without any change. We should consider whether they are suitable for today's conditions, bearing in mind that there has been a decline in rural transport. I should prefer not to look at the Conservative document of 1973 but to consider the consultative document of 1976, which sets out the situation very clearly. Obviously, we shall be reaching conclusions based on that document during the year.