HC Deb 21 February 1977 vol 926 cc1185-98

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Mr. Tinn.]

11.4 p.m.

Mr. Dafydd Wigley (Caernarvon)

I am pleased to have this opportunity to bring to the attention of the House and the Government a problem which is causing very great distress to my constituents in Caernarvon, namely, the proposal to construct an inner relief road through the town. This is not, of course, the first time that I have raised the subject in this Chamber, as the Under-Secretary of State knows well.

Caernarvon is a historic centre of great importance. It has been described as a treasure of medieval Europe". As with many other historic towns, the roads within the old town of Caernarvon are narrow and many of the buildings of historic and architectural interest. The town and castle attract many thousands of tourists in summer, as well as being on the route of tourist through traffic, visiting the surrounding beaches and mountains or coming to stay in the Lleyn Peninsula. Caernarvon is an administrative centre and a shopping centre. All this means that there is a substantial volume of traffic that either passes through the town or stops there for a specific purpose. The volume has grown over the years—from 3,600 a day in August 1954 to 9,000 in August 1965 and to 11,000 a day in August 1972. This has led to congestion, long traffic queues and substantial delays, particularly during the peak tourist season.

The need for some scheme to alleviate the traffic in Caernarvon has been recognised for many years. Before the war there was a proposal for an outer bypass, running from Llandegai to Bontnewydd, and, indeed, some work was done on improving this road during the inter-war years. However, parts of it remained, until very recently, both narrow and dangerous and quite inadequate for presentday traffic needs. Even now, this road cannot serve as a bypass without significant improvement.

During the 1950s a scheme was brought forward for an inner bypass road for Caernarvon, and, to my knowledge, it has been discussed since 1955. When it was proposed in detail in the 1960s, by the old Caernarvonshire County Council, it was a controversial scheme. It was described at the time as a monstrosity and a scheme which posterity would denounce as an outrage". Those feelings, which still exist today, were partly because of the visual impact of the proposed new road, which can best be described as an urban motorway dissecting a small town of 9,000 people; partly because it would divide the town, making it difficult for persons from the residential areas on one side of the road to have access to the shopping area of the town; partly because it would artificially restrict the area in which the town's shopping and commercial centre could expand in the future; and partly because it would mean the demolition of buildings of historic importance.

However, in the 1960s those feelings were outweighed by those who saw the desperate need for something to be done, and done urgently, to relieve the traffic congestion. The status quo was not an option then, nor is it now. The then Caernarvon Borough Council backed the scheme, stating that otherwise the town would drift into a state of traffic stagnation, of chaos and confusion. The town clerk of the time, Mr. J. O. Smith, stated in 1965 that they had to think of the traffic in 10 years' time when it "would have swollen fourfold". The Caernarvon Chamber of Commerce backed the proposal for the same reason, and it is worth quoting its chairman of the period, Mr. S. Wyndham Jones, who said in 1966: Having already waited 11 years to get to this stage, it may well be, if there is opposition to the scheme, that we may have to wait another 11 years before anything further is done. It is ironic that now, in 1977, 11 years after those words were spoken, we still have no inner relief road in Caernarvon, although we have all the disfigurement and inconvenience of a decade of spluttering stop-go on this project. It has turned the appearance of the town today into what the Mayor of Arfon, Councillor W. Trefor Hughes, has described as resembling Liverpool after the bombing 30 years ago. The morale of the town is at rock bottom, and, as Councillor I. B. Griffith said to me recently, we are bringing up a generation of children in the town who have been acclimatised to living amidst squalor.

The point I make is that 10 years ago there was opposition to the scheme. Indeed some, like Councillors Brian Williams and Mrs. Bonner Pritchard, fought a consistent campaign throughout the intervening period against the project. But even those who wanted the scheme based their case on the urgency of progress and the fact that they were told then that any alteration to the scheme that had been proposed would lead to substantial delay. Very few people indeed backed the scheme without reservation, but they accepted that something had to be done.

The scheme—which had originally been costed at £140,000 plus land acquisition costs—was scheduled to go ahead following the inquiry of 1968. A Caernarvonshire County Council letter of July 1969 stated that construction was due to start in the year 1970–71. But delays set in, and in October 1974 the county surveyor of Gwynedd stated: Works are due to begin in July 1975. During this delay, there had been a growing feeling in the town that parts of the scheme, if not its entirety, should be reconsidered and that the delays being experienced could facilitate such a rethink.

In 1974, a deputation from Arfon Council went to the Welsh Office and pressed it to consider plans that would cost less and would not affect the town so detrimentally. They were told by the Director of Highways that he would not and could not consider any amendment to the scheme as submitted. They were told that any change whatsoever would mean going right back to the start of the scheme, and that it would put at least seven years, maybe more, on to the time scale of the work. It was a Catch 22 situation. Arfon Borough Council reluctantly accepted that if the scheme was going ahead it could not afford to jeopardise it.

I had a meeting with the Under-Secretary in February 1975, together with Mr. Hugh Davies, county surveyor of Gwynedd, and Mr. Gareth White, chief planning officer of Arfon, and was told the same thing—that to change a comma or a dot on the scheme would jeopardise the time scale by up to seven years.

Then, in June 1975, we were told by the Under-Secretary that the Government had to face up to some unpalatable decisions on priorities and that the Caernarvon inner relief road was postponed until 1977. I immediately urged that this delay should be used to modify the plan, but was again told that any change would lead to the scheme having to be put back by up to seven years, and that it would then have to take its chance with other pressing requirements in other parts of Wales.

In August 1975, following a letter from the Director of Highways of the Welsh Office which had stated that it was not possible at that stage to know when the scheme would start, the Caernarvon Town Council wrote to the Secretary of State asking that the delay should be used to lessen the impact of the proposed road on the town. At the same time, Arfon Borough Planning Committee resolved to try to negotiate again with the Welsh Office to obtain a more suitable scheme. The Welsh Office again refused to consider changes to the scheme.

On 23rd December 1975 Gwynedd County Council, which is the agent for the Welsh Office on the scheme, stated the announcement of the starting date of the road was "imminent" and that it would have top priority. I followed this up, when no dates were forthcoming, with a meeting in March 1976 with the Under-Secretary, but I was given no firm dates. Despite this uncertainty of timing, the Welsh Office repeated that it would not reconsider the scheme without going back to square one, although I tried to show the Welsh Office how substantial public money could be saved if a scaled-down scheme could be introduced and an outer bypass developed in conjuction with the Bangor Bypass and the Port Dinorwick Bypass.

Since then there has been no further progress on specifying a date for construction, and the Secretary of State has rejected numerous requests from local leaders for him to come to Caernarvon to see the mess for himself and to discuss possible ways forward. It is not just the environmental appearances and public health that have suffered over this period. The whole area has been subject to the most terrible planning blight, which has affected a number of commercial and domestic properties. It has caused hardship and anguish, and the nightmare for these people seems interminable. It has also had an adverse effect on those who have been interested in investing in commercial development in the town.

I would like to turn for a moment to another aspect of the problem. That concerns the secondary road network that is essential if this scheme is to be a successful answer to Caernarvon's traffic problems. At the time when the inner relief road was being first advocated in detail in the mid-1960s, it was partly sold on the basis of improvements it could bring for pedestrians in the town. We were told that Pool Street and Castle Square would be made traffic-free. Indeed, the secondary road network was seen as an essential ingredient in the inner relief road proposals, as is seen in the following quotation from Mr. C. B. Pyne, then Caernarvonshire Planning Officer, in a letter of 3rd July 1968 to the Welsh Office Roads Division: The Inner Relief Road in itself, will not provide this improvement —in the traffic problem— without an extensive system of distributor roads, and therefore it is essential that these are considered at the same time and that the Inner Relief Road is shown as an essential part of a complete new road system. The secondary road network was seen in this light and was expected to be treated as part of the whole package to solve the traffic problems. Indeed, the former county surveyor of Caernarvonshire had reported that the Divisional Road Engineer of the Welsh Office had told him, in relation to the secondary road underpass of Bridge Street, that the Welsh Office was prepared to consider that at least part of its cost (and possibly the whole) should form part of the trunk road works. Without the secondary road network, there is doubt about whether the inner relief road will work. The Welsh Office has subsequently stated that the secondary road system is none of its affair, yet Gwynedd County Council will not be able to bear such costs given the cutback in public expenditure required by the Government. The Welsh Office cannot ignore the implication of the secondary roads on the inner relief road scheme.

The Caernarvon inner relief road was developed in the early 1960s. Since then, many factors in the area have changed substantially. There has been the whole change in the economic situation, with more limited resources for local authorities and high inflation pushing up costs. The scheme was talked of in 1962 as costing some £140,000. By 1975, the cost was £5.2 million. Interest rates on borrowing have escalated. We have had the change in local government, with new authorities, and new people, responsible for the area. We have also had some substantial road improvements outside Caernarvon, partly at the time of the Investiture in 1969 and more recently in association with the CEGB pump storage scheme at Dinorwig. As a result, roads that a decade ago were narrow country lanes are now much upgraded and deemed fit to carry tourist traffic to avoid the town of Caernarvon as a "dragon route".

Grants towards country road schemes have been cut down and are unlikely ever to provide enough to undertake the necessary secondary road network without denuding the rest of Gwynedd of any funds, and the locally-determined pool is much too small to provide the new car parks that were envisaged as necessary for the scheme a decade ago.

With all this change, it is quite inconceivable that the Welsh Office should plod blindly on without looking at any possible modifications and seeing whether what was the right answer a decade ago is the appropriate solution today—even more so when we consider that there has been a lull in the original programme of eight years already, in which such monitoring of the scheme against other developments should have been undertaken.

We have been told on numerous occasions that there was no question of reconsidering any of the scheme without risking putting the whole scheme back by seven years. Yet all that the 1968 inquiry did was to establish the line of the road. There were in 1968 no engineering drawings available. They were finalised in 1975. On what possible basis can the Welsh Office refuse to consider detailed changes suggested since 1974?

From a letter of 3rd April 1975, from the Welsh Office Highways Department to Arfon Borough Council, it is clear that changes could be considered because in that letter it is specified that modifications to the original plans would be undertaken in relation to both the Eagles Hotel subway, and the Moriah Square subway. It is clear that there can be consideration of amending detail to the scheme. The parliamentary answer that I obtained on 16th February 1976 from the Under-Secretary said: It is my intention to construct the road on the line set out in the … Order."—[Official Report, 16th February 1976; Vol. 905, c. 528.] Since, on that occasion, the hon. Gentleman was referring to the line in general, and since it has been shown that small amendments can be made to detail, will the Under-Secretary say on what basis the Welsh Office has been unwilling to discuss other amendments to the detail, amendments which could well ameliorate a substantial proportion of the current misgiving about the scheme? For instance, if the road was kept within the horizontal parameters of the route in the inquiry, might it not be possible to discuss changes to the height of the flyover, or, indeed, whether a flyover is necessary at all?

I now turn to the matter of uncertainty concerning the scheme. Of course, the Welsh Office maintains that there is no uncertainty, but it will not give a firm starting date for the scheme. Every promise, however tentative, is couched in provisos, such as It is not possible at this stage to say when the scheme will start", 'as soon as the financial position allows", "as soon as money permits', "as soon as possible". If those quotes do not reflect uncertainties, I would like to know what does. That is without doubt the way they are understood in Caernarvon. The Mayor of Arfon said in a letter to the Secretary of State: For the umpteenth time, we have been told, tenders will be invited next year. It is no use the Under-Secretary saying that there is no uncertainty, and if he were to respond to some of the invitations he has had to visit the area and to discuss the matter with local people he would better understand that fact. It was this that led the Arfon Borough Council to pass the following resolution in its planning committee on 1st December, 1976: That in view of the uncertainty surrounding the programme of the Inner Relief Road Scheme, due to the present economic situation, the Arfon Borough Council calls upon the Welsh Office to abandon the present scheme, and to prepare alternative plans, more in keeping with the environment of the town of Caernarvon. It has been driven to this conclusion by the delays, uncertainties and lack of flexibility of the Welsh Office.

I want the Under-Secretary to be quite clear in his mind as to what I am pressing for tonight. As I have already stated, the status quo is no option. We cannot just stop the clock and leave everything as it is. I am certain that the majority of the people of Caernarvon now wish that this scheme had never been dreamed up. Given certain provisos, they would happily see it scrapped. That is an option —and one which I personally would choose—if, but only if, alternative provision for the traffic going through Caernarvon can be arranged. Perhaps we could have a scaled-down version of the inner relief road, with no high level flyover, together with help towards the outer road between Bontnewydd and Llandegai. It is not an option to scrap the present road without making alternative traffic provisions and without making good the dereliction that today scars the town. We have been told that it would be at least another seven years before any alternative could be started, but in all seriousness is that really so?

If however, when he answers tonight, the Under-Secretary comes forward with firm dates—irrevocably firm dates—on which tenders will be invited and on which the work will begin, and, therefore, a target date for the completion of the road, I would still put it to him that he, in conjunction with his officials should look again at some of the detail of this scheme. He should seek ways of acting, within the inquiry that constrains him and which can help meet some of the very real misgivings of the people of Caernarvon about this road. Will he look again at the detail of the flyover that threatens to cut the main residential parts of Caernarvon off from the shopping area of the town? There are modifications to the proposals that can be undertaken within the outline for the road that was put forward at the inquiry. Will the hon. Gentleman look into these to see whether particularly the effects of the present scheme on pedestrians cannot be improved? Will he see whether the old National School cannot be scheduled as a listed building?

Also will the hon. Gentleman read again the evidence which was given in 1968 to support this road and which referred to the necessary secondary road network to get benefit from the scheme?

In doing this, will he bear in mind the financial limitations which the Government have placed on the local highway authority and that, if these necessary ancillary works are to be undertaken in order to get the trunk road part of the total package to work, it will be necessary for the Gwynedd Council to be granted greater resources than those that have recently been at its disposal for road purposes?

Finally, will the Under-Secretary realise that the people of Caernarvon have feelings in this matter and that the way in which both he and the Secretary of State have refused to meet local people to discuss the present disaster that has hit the town is regarded as unworthy of those who carry responsibility at a national level in Wales and who most certainly have to bear the responsibility for the delays that have landed Caernarvon in its present plight?

The people of Caernarvon, having suffered mounting blight over 17 years associated with this road scheme, have in recent years had to live with their town turned into a mock-up of a bomb-site. They are entitled to have clear answers to these questions, as they are also entitled to have action on this scheme, adapted in a practical way to meet the requirements of their everyday lives. The Government can prevaricate no longer. They must act, and act now.

11.22 p.m.

The Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Barry Jones)

I agree with the remarks of the hon. Member for Caernarvon (Mr. Wigley) about this splendid historic town, but the hon. Gentleman made a near-hysterical speech argued in a naive way.

I listened with interest to the hon. Gentleman, as I have done on the several occasions when he has made representations to me about this scheme. The intention of the scheme, which will cost just over £5½ million, is to provide a direct cross-town route which will serve as both an inner relief road and a trunk road bypass some 850 metres long. It will make a major contribution towards relieving the town centre and the castle surroundings of the traffic congestion and delays which increasingly in recent years have impaired the attractiveness and environment of this historic area.

I realise the frustrations felt by the townspeople of Caernarvon because of the delay in starting this scheme, especially as the statutory procedures were completed in 1973. However, work was unable to start due to the problems facing the local housing authority in coping with the added burden of extensive rehousing resulting from the proposed scheme and later on sadly, because sufficient funds were not available to carry out this and other worthwhile schemes in Wales. Tenders were to have been invited in June 1975. The public expenditure cuts announced in February 1975 delayed the progress of the scheme.

Recently there has been strong pressure from some quarters for the abandonment of the inner relief road in favour of an outer bypass. Among the main objections raised by the local authorities—that is the Arfon District Council and the Caernarvon Town Council—were that the scheme was too extensive, that the scale of the flyover, slip roads and cuttings would cut the town in two, severely limiting the expansion of the town centre, and that this segregation, combined with an inadequate supporting road system, would cause difficulties for traffic travelling between the residential areas and the centre. My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State considered all the arguments for and against the scheme, which were fully discussed at the public inquiry, together with the inspector's report and recommendations in favour of the scheme before he reached his decision to proceed.

The flyover, the design of which was approved by the Royal Fine Art Commission, in fact will be fairly well below the level of the surrounding ground because of the general topography of the area. The main roundabout below the flyover will be in the bottom of the Cadnant Brook Valley and the flyover will span the valley. The scheme could assist the redevelopment of the town centre by providing better access.

If we were to comply with some suggestions and alter the proposals by dispensing with the flyover or by redesigning the main roundabout, further investigations would be required, to be followed by a public participation exercise and the publication of new orders. These new factors, together with the change in land requirements would delay the start of the scheme it has been estimated reliably, by some six or seven years. That is a factor we must bear in mind when we hear proposals for alterations and cancellations.

It has also been suggested that an outer bypass scheme would be preferable. Such a proposal would call for the construction of a link road and, in my view and that of others, particularly our advisers, would still leave a residual traffic problem in the town centre which the county council would have to solve. Construction of a new road or upgrading existing roads to trunk road standards would be costly and would render abortive the expenditure of around £1 million already incurred on the inner relief road scheme. Because of the need for new statutory procedures, there could be no relief to traffic problems in Caernarvon town centre for many years. We would have to go back to square one in some respects.

Turning to the inner relief road scheme itself, most of the land and property needed for the scheme has already been acquired. Some 94 properties have been purchased and, to clear the area ready for the start of the scheme and to tidy up areas of dilapidation, a programme of advance demolition works commenced in September 1975. We were responding then to the pleas of the hon. Member and the borough council to help to improve matters, temporarily at least. This has contributed significantly to environmental improvement and has also provided continued employment for the Gwynedd County Council direct labour force at a difficult time. as demolition work has proceeded the cleared sites have been levelled and, except on one site, covered with graded hardcore and fenced off. By shortening the construction period for the main contract, this advance programme will also reduce the effect on the area of the major works yet to be undertaken.

Two key properties on which negotiations for entry and acquisition are still proceeding are the former library and the Twthill Primary Schools which are owned by the Gwynedd County Council. The library lies partly on the route of the new trunk road and partly on the line of a new local access road without which residents of the area would be deprived of a convenient route to their houses. The library service has been moved and is housed in a temporary building. I am grateful to the Arfon District Council for its efforts to find alternative accommodation for the two elderly occupants still living in the library's residential quarters.

Turning to the Twthill School, only one of the two parts of the school needs to be demolished but the Department has agreed to purchase both sections partly because of the noise problems during the construction of the new road and partly because of its future proximity to the road.

The Department informed the Gwynedd County Council in August last that it could proceed with its arrangements for constructing a replacement school, and I understand that the county council expects to seek formal approval by the Welsh Office to its acceptance of a tender for the work soon. That submission will be dealt with as expeditiously as possible.

As regards the temporary sites, the only such site not surfaced with graded hardcore is at South Penrallt. It was not possible to surface the site because of the expense. Similarly, it was not possible to cover the sites with topsoil and seed them because funds were scarce and were available only for demolition and general tidying-up. I do not want to leave out Pont Seiont. This bridge is structurally unsound. It is shored up and is in urgent need of replacement. This would be necessary even if the inner relief road were replaced by an outer bypass to provide access into Caernarvon from the south-west.

Mr. Wigley

There is one point that the Minister has not covered. At the 1968 inquiry only the outline scheme was put forward. The engineering specification was not given until late 1974. The scheme was supposed to go ahead in 1975. Why was it necessary for there to be a seven-year delay in considering lowering the level of the flyover?

Mr. Jones

The hon. Gentleman put many questions in his detailed speech. I recall that when he led a deputation to see me in February 1975 he said that the planned scheme was necessary. Perhaps one question tonight is why he has changed his mind and why he has made so many exaggerated statements.

Nevertheless, there are very good reasons why the topography of the land is such that the flyover will fit effectively into the Cadnant Brook Valley. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will realise that I cannot give a precise date for a start of the work on this scheme as it still remains dependent on completion of acquisition of the few remaining properties and the speed with which a replacement school can be built. But we expect to invite tenders for the work before the end of this year, and we in the Welsh Office are very much aware of the frustration and problems of the people of Caernarvon.

I think, however, that the hon. Gentleman will have to admit that there are two substantive factors. The first is that the local authority faces the problem of rehousing all those coming from the demolished properties. It is a formidable problem, and I remind him that it was not the present Government but our predecessors who put a virtual stop to the building of council houses. Perhaps in some respects he should address himself to that aspect, because it has been a very big factor in this problem.

Secondly, the hon. Gentleman knows that the country faces grave financial and economic problems and that there is a shortage of funds throughout the country. It is unfortunate that in Wales road-building has to some degree had to be put back a little, but I assure the hon. Gentleman that we will bring this scheme forward if it is at all possible.

Question put and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-seven minutes to Twelve o'clock.