School Meals (Hansard, 15 February 1977)

§ 12. Mr. MacGregor
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether she will be prepared to receive representations on the Consultation Document on Economies in the School Meals Service from bodies other than those to whom it has been circulated and suggestions other than those contained in the document itself.

§ Miss Margaret Jackson
Yes, Sir. Publicity for the document was arranged with this in mind. Copies are available, and any suggestions will be considered.

§ Mr. MacGregor
Is the hon. Lady aware that there is considerable disbelief that some of the savings she seeks will be achieved through the proposals set out in the consultation document? Is it not unfair that many local education authori- 242 ties are being forced to make damaging decisions on teaching, which often end in the closure of schools and reductions in the number of teaching posts? Could this not be avoided by making greater savings in terms of school meals through reasonable options, and will she reconsider giving local authorites the direction to take responsible action?

§ Miss Jackson
I do not agree that there is no room for making the economies we have suggested, otherwise we would not have suggested them. Furthermore, I do not understand what the hon. Gentleman means by "reasonable options", since his local education authority wishes to cease providing school meals. I should like more detail about what he means by "reasonable options" before I agree with his proposition.

§ Mr. Bowden
Is the Minister aware that a significant number of teachers are having free lunches every day and making no contribution towards the cost of them? If some information was presented to them about this, I am sure that most teachers would wish to contribute at least the economic cost of the meal. Will the Minister take steps to ensure that the unions bring this about?

§ Miss Jackson
We have never sought to question the understanding that teachers who are doing supervisory jobs should get free school meals, but I am a little surprised to hear from the hon. Gentleman that some are getting more than one. We are undoubtedly concerned about the fact that at the moment free school meals provided for children cost less than half as much as free school meals provided for adults. That is certainly one of the matters where we feel it may be possible to make some savings.

§ Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
Does my hon. Friend not accept that the free school meal service, and the provision of school meals, is an important provision in education and that it is impossible to teach children and make them understand and study if they are hungry while in school?

§ Miss Jackson
I do accept that. It is one of the reasons why we have continued to defend the school meal service as such.

§ Dr. Boyson
Is the Minister aware that since school meal supervision became 243 voluntary in 1968 in inner city areas it is only because of large free school meals that staff have actually supervised during school dinner? If these meals are withdrawn while school meals are continued, and if the staff ceases to do this voluntarily, we shall have disorder in these schools in the centre of our cities during the lunch period.

§ Miss Jackson
It is not our intention at all to question the basic part of the 1968 agreement, which is that people doing duties should be entitled to free meals. That has never been suggested and, indeed, we should oppose such a withdrawal. However, there is scope in some areas—although perhaps not in the inner-city areas to which the hon. Gentleman referred—for different arrangements. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman is aware of the Mayfield scheme, which works on the basis of continuing teacher supervision but tries to do it in a more flexible way. This is perhaps something that schools might be able to study and learn from.