HC Deb 08 February 1977 vol 925 cc1223-6
Q2. Mr. Grylls

asked the Prime Minister if the public speech on parliamentary democracy and individual liberty given by the Secretary of State for Education and Science on 21st January at Swadlincote represents Government policy.

Q9. Mr. Wyn Roberts

asked the Prime Minister if the public speech of the Secre tary of State for Education and Science on parliamentary democracy at Swadlincote on 21st January represents Government policy.

The Prime Minister

My right hon. Friend began her speech by saying that she did not intend to discuss the affairs of Government, but in so far as she did touch on them the answer is "Yes".

Mr. Grylls

Since the right hon. Lady was talking about Marxists during a large part of her speech, and following the final rejection last night of the right hon. Member for Newham, North-East (Mr. Prentice) as local party candidate, will the Prime Minister say where he stands? Will he come clean about this and say whether at the next General Election he will be supporting the candidate of the Newham Marxists or whether he will be supporting the right hon. Member as an independent democratic Labour Party candidate?

The Prime Minister

There is no ministerial responsibility on this matter, but the hon. Gentleman may take it that I shall be supporting all the candidates who support the Parliamentary Labour Party and that I shall be vigorously opposing any Conservative.

Mr. Roberts

Will the right hon. Gentleman come clean on this? Does he share the right hon. Lady's unease about Trotskyism and Trotskyites, and does he agree that Marxists have shown little concern for democracy?

The Prime Minister

It is true that Marxists have not shown too much concern for democracy. As my right hon. Friend pointed out in her speech, they share that with the Conservative Party, which, as she said, has shown very little practical demonstration in championing the causes of unpopular minorities or campaigns against discrimination on grounds of sex or race and many other matters that she interpreted as being aspects of freedom. I have not seen that the Conservative Party has been very active in these matters.

Mrs. Millie Miller

Is my right hon. Friend aware that one contribution made by the Leader of the Opposition in furthering debate on the matters to which he has just referred was to make a radio broadcast from Wales in which she attacked the Asian immigrants, very few of whom live in Wales?

Mrs. Thatcher indicated dissent.

The Prime Minister

I represent a Welsh constituency which contains certain coloured communities, and a number of those people are Asians. I am happy to inform my hon. Friend that they consistently vote Labour and that they would not listen to that kind of rubbish.

Mrs. Thatcher

What the hon. Member for Ilford, North (Mrs. Miller) said is quite wrong. However, may I return to Questions to the Prime Minister, as I understand that that is the object of this quarter of an hour on Tuesday afternoons? Is he aware that he has steadily refused to answer questions about the influence of Marxism in the party which keeps him in power? Does he, like his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education, condemn that influence, or is he too reliant on it to put his policies into practice to condemn it?

Mrs. Millie Miller

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker—

Mr. Speaker

Will the hon. Lady be kind enough to wait five minutes and raise her point of order at the end of Questions?

Mrs. Millie Miller

May I appeal to you, Mr. Speaker, to allow me to raise this point of order now, since I have a statement which appeared in Dawn Overseas, which is the journal of the Pakistani immigrants, which makes it quite clear that the statement I made is correct?

Mr. Speaker

When there is disagreement between hon. Members it is not exactly a point of order, and I must remind the House that time is going on.

The Prime Minister

I agree with the right hon. Lady, but I thought that this subject was appropriate for Questions to the Prime Minister in his official capacity. Those Questions are not designed to give the right hon. Lady an opportunity of pursuing points which are rather unworthy of her, as she knows. I am almost tempted to go into the internal history of Conservative Central Office, and that would do nobody any good. [Interruption.]

Mr Speaker

Order.

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Lady knows very well where I stand on the issue of Marxism and the other issues. I do not propose to spend time on questions dealing with issues which have nothing to do with my Prime Ministerial rôle.

Mrs. Thatcher

Is not the Prime Minister tempted to answer the question for a change? Does he welcome or does he condemn the support of Marxists to keep him in power?

The Prime Minister

I would no more welcome or condemn it than the right hon. Lady would welcome or condemn the support of Fascists for the Conservative Party. What is more, I would not even insult the right hon. Lady by asking her a question such as that. I hope that we may conduct discussions in this Chamber on the basis that all parties are concerned with the issues of freedom, liberty and democracy. That is where I expect the right hon. Lady to stand, and she knows very well that that is where I stand. [Interruption.]

Mrs. Thatcher

Is the right hon. Gentleman—[Interruption]—not aware that I have no hesitation whatever—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. Barracking is not part of the tradition of this House.

Mrs. Thatcher

Is the Prime Minister aware that I wholly condemn Fascism anywhere, and that I ask him similarly wholly to condemn Marxism?

Hon. Members

Answer!

The Prime Minister

I do not discourage the discussion of philosophical ideas—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—that may help to shape our society. Maybe the right hon. Lady is afraid of them. I am not. I am ready to meet them and face them, but the right hon. Lady should not confuse discussion with support.

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