§ 1.47 p.m.
§ Mr. Philip Goodhart (Beckenham)For the past few weeks there has been a steady trickle of news stories, leading articles and articles in the British Press, notably in The Times, the Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, the Observer and The Sunday Times, about the boat people—the refugees from Vietnam who seek to leave that country. This has been caused for two basic reasons.
In the last few weeks there has been an upsurge in the number of those who have been trying to leave. In the first fortnight of October about 600 people reached Thailand from Vietnam.
I have seen one of the United Nations refugee camps where these people live in harsh conditions waiting, they hope, for onward passages to France, Australia or the United States. Some of the experiences of these men, women and children who set to sea in their small craft were very harrowing indeed. I talked to some of those involved. I talked to a Cambodian family who set forth from their country in a rowing boat which was no larger than some of those which are to be found on the Serpentine. For seven nights this family of nine rowed and laid up in the inlets of the country in the daytime. Finally, they had reached a haven.
In the whole of October, just under 900 boat refugees reached Thailand. In November, the Thais, who had been frightened by the influx, decided to impose rather harsher rules than hitherto, and the tide flowed down to Australia. In the first nine days of December, it seemed that some 2,000 refugees from Vietnam were making this extraordinary journey, comparable with the journey of Captain Bligh, across open seas to reach the haven which they hoped to find in Australia.
We do not know how many altogether have set out. It seems that over the past two years about 12,000 have found 1186 some sort of haven in the refugee camps of Thailand, Malaysia and Australia. It has been suggested by the former deputy leader of the Opposition to President Thieu in South Vietnam, who himself became a refugee from the Communists after co-operating with the Communist regime, that no fewer than 100,000 have set out and that some 90,000 have perished en route. Mr. Ian Ward, of the Daily Telegraph, who has made a substantial study of the problem, estimates that only one in six of those who set out finally makes it, which suggests that in the last couple of years about 72,000 Vietnamese have either perished or been caught and imprisoned.
But added publicity has been given to the plight of these poor unfortunate human beings by the fact that, as the number of those fleeing increases, so the number of places to which they can go is reduced. Malaysia used to offer some sort of haven and has now shut its coastline. Thailand has had a noble record in the past, but the Thais, frightened by the increase in the number coming in, frightened that some of those posing as refugees will be a security threat to their own country, and frightened that the refugees will put a substantial financial burden on the Thai Government itself—not a rich Government by any means—have raised barriers.
The Philippines has raised barriers. Japan has raised barriers. Singapore has raised barriers. Australia has had a noble record in the past, but the recent surge of some 2,000 refugees towards its shores has made even the present Australian Government doubtful whether they can continue an open coast policy.
Added to that is the problem that many masters of merchant ships, on seeing the refugees in their small pathetic craft, turn away and do not pick them up according to the law of the sea, because they are uncertain about whether they will ever be able to unload the refugees when they next reach port.
What can be done? Curiously, no one likes to be seen to be doing good in this matter, because people fear that if they are seen to be too hospitable, a swarm of new refugees will follow. It is suggested by those who study the situation closely that the number of those who wish to leave Vietnam, especially South Vietnam, could run into hundreds of thousands.
1187 Some people are doing good. The Americans, who, immediately after the Vietnam debacle, took in about 140,000 Vietnamese refugees, are now issuing 15,000 extra visas. The French are taking about 1,000 a month. We have taken about 150. But I do not suggest that this country is necessarily the right place for the resettlement of these refugees. They are often fisher folk, and it would seem pointless to bring them half-way round the world and to settle them in Birmingham, Beckenham or Belfast.
What we need is international co-operation and some degree of consultation—inevitably, I believe, under the leadership of the Americans—to find satisfactory homes for these boat people. I think that the lead must come from America. America is a wealthy country, the Americans have a strong humanitarian instinct, and, of course, the recent history of Vietnam, in which they have been heavily involved, gives them an additional moral obligation. But the whole burden ought not to fall upon their shoulders. In my view, they have to carry too much of the burden now, and I feel that America's allies should be willing to co-operate with her in trying to find some place to which these refugees can go.
However, as the world is beset by so many problems, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find places to which the refugees can go. There is the possibility of some resettlement in Central America. One notes that there have been conversations between the Brazilians and the Japanese about the movement of an additional 1 million Japanese to Brazil. One is inclined to wonder whether it might be possible for a substantial number of Vietnamese to take the place of some of those Japanese settlers in Brazil, one of the few countries where there is substantial space left.
The Vietnamese represent only part of the Indo-Chinese refugee problem. A far bigger problem is posed by the Cambodians and Laotians. It is not for me to set forth this afternoon the reasons why these people try to flee from their homelands. We know that many from Vietnam flee because they fear that their families will be broken up, that they will be sent away from their homes to new economic areas, and that if it is relatively easy at present to get away, 1188 the situation will deteriorate quite rapidly in the future.
That applies with additional force in Cambodia, but the number of Cambodian refugees is now very small—perhaps two or three a day crossing the border into Thailand. The reason why the number is so small is that the final solution "really seems to have worked there, and most of those who had the ability and the drive to get away from that tryrannical, horrendous regime have either already flown or already been killed. There is now a substantial killing zone along the Cambodian-Thai frontier that makes it almost impossible for the average person to get across.
The problem from Laos is more difficult. There again, substantial numbers are faced with the break-up of their families by postings to new economic areas. There is a substantial food problem. It is suggested that in order to ward off starvation, Laos, with a population of only 3 million, will need to have 300,000 tons of rice imported this year. Two thousand refugees a month are now crossing from Laos into Thailand. It is feared by the Thais that that number could increase very rapidly, so they have sharply increased the restrictions on the number of refugees coming across the frontier.
I am delighted that in the course of the last few days the Government have been able to announce a quite substantial increase in the support that we are giving to the refugees in Thailand. It seemed to me last year that it was a disgrace that we were making no contribution at all to the United Nations' special programme for refugees in Thailand. The amount then went from nought to £250,000. Now, I am happy to say, it is £750,000. But there is a basic problem in Thailand. I have talked to the local commissioner for refugees, and it is perfectly plain that at least 50,000 of the 90,000 Laotian and Cambodian refugees who are now in the camps there cannot possibly move to the West and make a go of it. They will have to stay on the spot in Thailand or move to some other tropical area, and no other tropical area seems readily available. The Thais are obviously concerned about the number flowing in. They are concerned that they will be an economic burden to them. 1189 What is needed is a substantial international programme, again led by the United States but with ourselves and France participating strongly, to make possible the permanent resettlement of these refugees within Thailand. This is not an idea that is popular with the Thai people. It will, therefore, mean international co-operation as well as international money to get over the psychological resistance and the psychological problems of the Thai people.
I hope that as well as making our contribution, which I am delighted to say has recently been increased, Her Majesty's Government will be able and anxious to co-operate in any future international discussions that are held in order to find a permanent home for these unfortunate refugees. This problem, at Christmas time, ought to be a blot on the conscience of the world.
§ 2.4 p.m.
§ The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Overseas Development (Mr. John Tomlinson)I am grateful to the hon. Member for Beckenham (Mr. Goodhart) for raising this afternoon the whole question of aid to Indo-Chinese refugees. The predicament of these refugees, who felt it necessary to flee from their own countries and to seek refuge elsewhere, is a matter of concern to the Government and to many individual people in this country.
I think that the hon. Member has been right to draw attention to the scale of the problem, because, although we read about it in our newspapers, very frequently the scale of the problem escapes many people in this country.
The collapse of the non-Communist regimes in South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in 1975 resulted in large numbers of Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians leaving their countries. When the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees estimated the numbers that were involved in this in September 1977, he felt that there were some 88,000 Indo-Chinese refugees in Thailand, made up of 73,000 Laotians, 14,000 Cambodians and 1,000 Vietnamese.
The scale of this problem, as the hon. Member pointed out, is a matter of great concern to everybody. I believe that it is tragic, so long after the dramatic changes 1190 that took place in Indo-China in 1975, that there are still so many who are willing to incur the great risks involved to their persons and families in leaving their countries in a search for the basic elements of a civilised life elsewhere.
The flow of people leaving the countries of Vietnam, Laos and Kampuchea has continued, and most seek refuge, as the hon. Member said, in Thailand, facing an uncertain future of life in refugee camps. A smaller number set out in perilous conditions in small boats hoping to be picked up by passing ships or to find landfall and refuge in neighbouring countries.
The hon. Member referred in some detail to the problems of the boat people. I agreed with what he said. The only point that I would make in addition about the boat people is that I welcome the fact that the General Council of British Shipping, at the request of the Government, some time ago reminded British ships' masters of our own legislation, which requires them to rescue anyone who is in distress at sea, and was assured that this would be adhered to where it was within their power to do so. We know of a number of cases in which British masters, despite the uncertainty of the position, to which the hon. Member rightly referred, have gone out of their way to assist refugees and to make sure that they came to safety.
The problem, though, as the hon. Member stated, is an international one which requires international solutions. Many Governments and international and voluntary agencies are making efforts to assist in relieving the problem. Great tribute is due to them. In the international field the principal rôle has rested with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, who since 1975 has been conducting programmes for the provision of material assistance and resettlement, both within and outside Indo-China. During 1975 and 1976 the High Commissioner, in co-operation with Governments and other agencies, assisted in the resettlement in other countries of more than 54,000 people. During that period the British Government contributed over £2 million in humanitarian relief for Indo-China generally, through the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and other international and voluntary agencies.
1191 But there are still large numbers of refugees in Thailand, and more continue to arrive. The latest information that I have is that there are about 90,000 people still in camps. Other refugees in smaller numbers—we shall probably never know how many set out from the shores of their countries—are stranded in other countries in Asia without permanent homes or means of support.
This year the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees made a new appeal for funds to enable him to continue to implement a programme of humanitarian assistance in 1977 for Indo-Chinese displaced persons in Thailand and other Asian countries. As the House will be aware and as the hon. Member rightly mentioned, last year we gave £250,000 to the High Commissioner for this purpose. I am obviously glad that the hon. Member has so warmly welcomed the fact that we have since decided, subject only to the minor reservation of the need for parliamentary approval, to increase that amount to £750,000. That is what has happened so far.
The financial resources for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees' special programme come not from the United Nations regular budget but from the voluntary contributions of member States. The United Kingdom has regularly supported the High Commissioner's programmes. We have always held that financial burdens should not be left to a few countries and that those countries which have not already done so should now make every effort to contribute to the High Commissioner's fund. If the High Commissioner were to approach us with a further programme for the region, we would certainly be prepared to see how best we could assist in that further programme.
We also contribute to the regular programme of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, part of which covers activities concerning the Indo-China refugees. Last year for the regular programme we pledged £350,000 and this year, subject to further parliamentary approval, we have pledged a further £350,000 for the 1977 programme and £400,000 for the 1978 programme.
I should like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to Prince Sadruddin Aga 1192 Khan, who has been United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees since 1966. The Secretary-General of the United Nations announced last month that he had accepted the request of Prince Sadruddin to be released from his responsibility as High Commissioner at the end of this year. I should like to express the deep appreciation of the Government of the dedicated and energetic manner in which he has discharged his responsibilities over the past 10 years. It is in no small way due to his personal efforts that the Government place such confidence in the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees as one of the most effective international agencie: in the humanitarian field.
The work of the voluntary agencies amongst refugees in Thailand should not be overlooked. It is greatly appreciated by the Government. Indeed, we regard it as essential that it should exist to complement the considerable efforts of the High Commissioner to which I have already referred.
As far as I am aware, the Government have received no request for grant from British voluntary agencies for assistance to refugees in Thailand. We consider that our official aid to this assistance should be directed through the international agencies of the United Nations, but we would be prepared to look at other requests for assistance. I say that having the voluntary agencies particularly in mind.
§ Mr. GoodhartI am delighted to hear the Minister say that. May I pay particular tribute to the work of the Save the Children Fund teams in Thailand? I bad an opportunity to see some of the work they were doing at Ubon and with the Laotians and Cambodians which was of absolutely outstanding quality.
§ Mr. TomlinsonI am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the tribute he has paid. I am aware of the work that the Save the Children Fund and many other voluntary agencies are doing. I am sure that they will welcome the fact that their work is appreciated. I wanted to make it quite clear that we should be prepared, in the context of the work that they are doing with refugees in Indo-China, to consider requests for assistance.
1193 I think that there is general agreement that we are dealing with a tragic situation, a situation which is a blot on humanity and which requires international effort to bring it to a successful resolution. The Government are playing their part in that international effort and I hope that the House will agree that our successive grants of United Kingdom aid make a worthwhile contribution to the relief of the problem and give tangible effect to the trust and support we have for the work of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and his staff and to the concern felt in this country about the humanitarian problems in South-East Asia.
It is against that background that I once again say that the House is grateful to the hon. Member for taking this opportunity to raise the serious question of Indo China refugees in the House.