HC Deb 16 December 1977 vol 941 cc1126-30
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Frank Judd)

With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I will make a statement about business to be taken by the Council of Ministers of the European Community during January 1978. The monthly written forecast was deposited on Tuesday 13th December.

At present four Council meetings are proposed for January. Fisheries Ministers will meet on 16th and possibly 17th; Finance Ministers possibly on 16th, Foreign Ministers on 17th and Agriculture Ministers on 23rd and 24th of that month.

Fisheries Ministers will continue their discussion on current fisheries proposals. The agenda for the proposed Finance Ministers' meeting has yet to be settled.

Foreign Ministers will consider relations with Spain, Cyprus, Turkey and Yugoslavia, the enlargement of the Community and the GATT multilateral trade negotiations. They will also probably consider Euratom-United States relations in the light of the new United States nuclear export and non-proliferation legislation resulting from President Carter's statement on 7th April 1977.

Agriculture Ministers will resume their discussion on common agricultural policy price proposals for 1978–79 and agricultural monetary questions. They may also give further consideration to support for agricultural producer groups and the organisation of the potato market.

Mr. Douglas Hurd

I thank the Minister for the statement.

I wish to ask the hon. Gentleman three short questions. He did not mention, in discussing the agenda for various ministerial meetings, the subject of direct elections. Does he think that the Council of Ministers—I imagine it will—will want to decide the date of those elections? In the light of the vote in this House last week on this subject, will the Minister give his EEC colleagues an undertaking that, provided there is the political will to provide parliamentary time, it will be possible to hold elections in this country next year, if that is what the Community decides?

Secondly, on the subject of farm prices, will he give an assurance that there is no reason why we should suffer again the delays that occurred last year as a result of which the Council of Ministers ended by approving the wider institutional increase in farm prices, which were the figures with which they had begun? May we give the Commission reasonable support in its proposals, which seem to be courageous ones?

Finally, the Minister did not mention one cause of concern—namely, the directive on doorstep selling and mail-order firms. I hope that before the next ministerial meeting our representative will reflect the widespread alarm and disquiet that is felt on this proposal.

Mr. Judd

On the subject of direct elections, the Government have made plain both in this House and at meetings of the Council of Ministers the difficulties that we would face if the House decided on a first-past-the-post system. I am certain that at forthcoming meetings—this is a continuing process of review—we shall be making our views clear on how we see the situation. We shall do our best to brief our ministerial colleagues about how we see the future, but it would be rash at this stage to give undertakings about specific target dates, because we believe, as we have said candidly, that if we were to meet the target date it would have to be a regional list system. The House has exercised its right to choose the other system, and therefore we have complications that we shall have to work out and evaluate.

I understand the point put by the hon. Gentleman about farm prices. The fact that we have already had an initial discussion by the Council of Ministers shows that it is determined to take this matter in good time and keep it in the right perspective.

The hon. Gentleman will recall that the Government have made their own anxieties clear about the directive on doorstep selling. There is much anxiety, not only in the House and in the country but in the Government as well, about the process, of which this directive seems to be an almost classic example, of harmonisation for harmonisation's sake, which we think does little good for the cause of the Community. Therefore, we shall not be encouraging an early adoption of the directive.

Mr. Molyneaux

Will the Agriculture Ministers be discussing the possible extension of these temporary measures to support farm prices—I am thinking particularly of milk—until a more permanent and far-reaching reform of the common agricultural policy can be carried out?

Mr. Judd

We have made plain—it was spelt out in the letter from my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to Mr. Ron Hayward—that we are looking for significant changes in the whole operation of the common agricultural policy. We see that as a long-term strategy which will have to be approached very carefully and practically. In the meantime, we do not want to see unnecessary disruptions, although, as I have said repeatedly, our immediate objective is to balance the interests of producers, which are of course important, with better recognition of the interests of the consumers.

Mrs. Dunwoody

Will my hon. Friend be kind enough to tell the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food that, whilst we appreciate his good efforts in price negotiations, it will be useless to keep the price increase to a very low figure if, as part of the deal, we have to agree to the automatic realignment of the MCAs? Will my hon. Friend also tell the Minister that the consumers cannot be forced to pay increased prices on that basis because they cannot afford it any longer?

Mr. Judd

I shall convey what my hon. Friend has said to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

Mr. Beith

Will the hon. Gentleman advise the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, on the contrary, that there is little point in discussing monetary arrangements within the Community unless there can be discussion about some revaluation of the green pound? Will he also reassure the Minister of continued strong support in the House for his firm stand on the fishing question and the necessity for securing a fair share for our own industry, with an adequate conservation régime to go with it?

In the discussions on direct elections, would it not help the Foreign Secretary to have with him in Brussels someone from the Conservative Front Bench in order to explain why that Front Bench voted to ensure that there will be no direct elections next year at all?

Mr. Judd

It is not for me to deal with that point about direct elections, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman will agree. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food takes seriously all the points made in the House about the monetary arrangements in the common agricultural policy. On the fisheries issue, we of course recognise the very strong feelings in this House, in the industry, and amongst the public in general. There is widespread recognition that the proposals so far put forward by the Commission do not begin to meet the needs of the United Kingdom in a fair and effective common fisheries policy, when and if one is to be introduced. But in saying that I must emphasise that there are indications that, as a result of the very strenuous presentation of the British case by my right hon. Friend, there is beginning to be a deeper recognition in the rest of the Community of the special needs of the United Kingdom.

Mr. James Johnson

We note what my hon. Friend has said about the changes—which I hope to be genuine—in the attitude of our colleagues towards the fishing question. Will he ensure that, at the talks on 16th January, whoever speaks for the United Kingdom conveys to the French delegation the distaste and anger of my constituents in Hull at the behaviour of the French deep-sea fleet in Norwegian waters in knowingly taking 2,650 tons of fish beyond its quota, which means that we lost that fish from our quota, with the result that our people in Hull had to tie up their boats? As a result, men are now unemployed in Hull who should be catching fish off the Norwegian coast.

Mr. Judd

This point has been forcefully represented by me and other members of the Government in the Council of Ministers. But we cannot over-emphasise the importance and priority which should be given to conservation, because, unless something meaningful and effective is done on conservation, there is genuine danger that, while we prevaricate in the Community, the stocks will be irreparably damaged.

Mr. Thompson

Will the agriculture Ministers be dealing with the import of Irish beef into this country, which is causing so much concern to our farmers?

Mr. Judd

I am sure that the matter will be dealt with by the Agriculture Ministers.

Mr. Palmer

In the light of the coming discussions on Euratom and of President Carter's energy outlook, when are we likely to have a report from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy on the discussions this week in the Council of Ministers on the fast breeder reactor?

Mr. Judd

I will bring that point to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy. The Government and the Community are very anxious to maintain good relationships with the United States, and to make sure that we are as far as possible talking the same language about this vital area of policy. Therefore, we shall be having very full discussions in the New Year about how we can best co-ordinate what we are doing with the lead given by the United States.