§ 2. Mr. Skinnerasked the Secretary of State for Employment what further steps he is taking to reduce unemployment; and if he will make a statement.
§ The Secretary of State for Employment (Mr. Albert Booth)The Government's strategy for achieving full employment on a stable basis gives priority to the attack on inflation so that we can take full advantage of an expansion of world trade. The aim of the industrial strategy is to enable British industry to achieve its full share of world trade based on high productivity, high investment and well-chosen innovation.
In the meantime, I have introduced a range of special employment and training measures which have reduced unemployment significantly. I am now considering the future of the main employment measures.
§ Mr. SkinnerMy right hon. Friend must not assume that fiddling with some of these short-term, high-cost schemes will be more than marginally effective. What is needed is a change of strategy. There must be an attempt to get down unemployment by acknowledging that technology has reduced the number of jobs. There must be a growth in the public sector. It was hinted at by the Prime Minister at Question Time last week that we must go for shorter hours and earlier retirement, especially in heavy industry. We must also allow wages to rise in order to increase purchasing power and thereby increase the number of jobs.
§ Mr. BoothI accept that a great many of the considerations which my hon. Friend raises are absolutely crucial to overcoming unemployment and developing a good employment policy in the longer run. But one cannot discount a range of special measures when one sees that among the more successful of them there are possibilities of saving more than 100,000 jobs.
§ Mr. PenhaligonHave the Government ever considered the possibility of introducing legislation making it compulsory to offer time off in lieu instead of overtime payments? If they did that, how many jobs do they think would be created?
§ Mr. BoothI have considered a number of possibilities in that area, but I would far rather see employers and trade unions working out their own alternatives to the present high levels of overtime working and means of employing more people. If there were to be an agreement on a CBI-TUC basis about statutory limitations, I think that the whole House would want to consider it.
§ Mr. McNamaraHas my right hon. Friend's attention been drawn to the American measure on job tax credits, which was introduced by Congress this year? It seems to have the advantage of encouraging increases in small and medium-size firms, extra jobs, extra productivity and extra marketing.
§ Mr. BoothThat measure is one of almost bewildering complexity to a Minister studying it on this side of the Atlantic. If, fully grasping its significance and possibilities of application in this country, I see certain advantages in it, I shall bring the matter to the notice of my colleagues. At the moment, I cannot see any way of applying such a measure with advantage here.
§ Mr. HendersonIs not the Secretary of State somewhat fed up at being made the fall guy for the Government's failure to reduce unemployment? Will he look again at the way in which incentives to industry are given? Many of these incentives are being given to highly capital-intensive projects which produce few jobs and, indeed, often lead to a contraction of jobs. Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is time to review this matter?
§ Mr. BoothI do not see myself as a Government fall guy. I think that most hon. Members and most people concerned about employment throughout the country realise that employment measures effected by the Government are determined in part by Treasury decisions, trade and industry decisions and by the Department of Employment. I see it as my job and that of other Ministers in 250 the Department of Employment to ensure that the employment implications of the policies of all other Departments are taken into account, including those of the Department of Industry.
§ Mr. HayhoeIs it not a national scandal that there will be about 750,000 more people unemployed this Christmastime than at the first Christmastime when the Labour Government came to power? Is it not essential that more encouragement be given to small businesses, which hold out the best hope of providing extra jobs? Further, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that, if subsidies are given to declining industries, the profitable and efficient industries will have to meet the bill and face resultant difficulty?
§ Mr. BoothI certainly agree that encouragement to small firms and industries to increase the number of jobs is desirable. A number of such measures are being implemented now. When, however, the hon. Gentleman talks about the tragedy of the level of unemployment, I hope he will also acknowledge that many more people will be in employment this Christmas than there were in the less severe economic conditions of 1972. In fact, there will be over 400,000 more employed this Christmas season, which shows that some of the measures that we have introduced to sustain and increase employment have had a considerable effect.
§ 3. Mr. Arnoldasked the Secretary of State for Employment what are the latest figures for unemployment; and if he will make a statement.
§ Mr. BoothAt 10th November, 1,437,963 people were registered as unemployed in Great Britain, or 6.2 per cent. of all employees. This was the third successive month in which unemployment had fallen, mainly as a result of reductions in the unemployment of school leavers.
§ Mr. ArnoldDo not these figures continue to reveal an extremely worrying situation and suggest that there is absolutely no evidence to show that we are in any way moving from what remains a deep recession? How much credibility does the Secretary of State attach to suggestions that the underlying trend of unemployment may still be rising?
§ Mr. BoothOn the evidence now available, we cannot say that there is not a trend towards rising unemployment in a number of sectors of our economy. But we can say that the overall effect of measures now being applied has resulted in an increase in the numbers employed. The degree to which this high unemployment rate follows from the higher rate of school leaving now taking place is one of the main reasons why we have determined to double the provision for unemployed people between 16 and 18 years of age by next autumn.
§ Mr. MaddenWill my right hon. Friend confirm that the temporary employment subsidy has done a great deal to reduce unemployment? Will he tell those in the European Commission who are opposed to this subsidy to take a running jump into the wine lake, and remind those in the Conservative Party who are opposed to the subsidy that it is safeguarding the jobs of at least 80,000 workers in the textile industry? What will happen to the subsidy in future? Will my right hon. Friend make a statement on this matter before Christmas, as this is most important in particular to the textile industry?
§ Mr. BoothI cannot give my hon. Friend a promise to use exactly the terms that he used to our EEC partners, but I can assure him that we shall attempt to achieve exactly the same effect. I agree that the temporary employment subsidy, probably more than any other single measure that we have introduced, has reduced redundancies by about one-third of what they might otherwise have been.
§ Mr. Nicholas WintertonIs the Secretary of State aware that, unless there is a successful outcome to the renegotiation of the Multi-Fibre Arrangement, tens of thousands of additional textile workers will be put out of work? Taking up the matter put to him by the hon. Member for Sowerby (Mr. Madden), may I ask the right hon. Gentleman what alternatives to TES his Department is considering?
§ Mr. BoothThis is a good example of the extent to which employment is the joint responsibility of my Department and other Departments—in this case the Department of Trade. I am anxious about this matter and am working in co- 252 operation with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade on the renegotiation of the MFA. In the meantime, irrespective of that, we are reviewing the operation of TES along with a number of other major measures which have been extended to March. I shall have to come back to the blouse with the outcome of that review.
§ 18. Mr. Hendersonasked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will make a statement on the current unemployment situation.
§ Mr. BoothAt 10th November, 1,437,963 people were registered as unemployed in Great Britain. The past three months have shown a fall in the number of unemployed, mainly as a result of school leavers finding jobs. The December figures will, I believe, show a further fall.
§ Mr. HendersonWill the Secretary of State accept that that fall was not reflected in the Scottish figures? In a broader context, will he not agree that we simply cannot go on like this and that the figures he has given today for the number of unemployed and the number coming on to the labour market suggest that some new approach must be found? Does he not feel that it would be worth while for the Government to produce a Green Paper on the cost of the various options of early retirement, more training, shorter working weeks and so on and lead a national debate on the whole issue of where we are going in relation to employment?
§ Mr. SkinnerWe do not need a debate. Just get it done.
§ Mr. BoothCertainly the falls which have taken place over the past couple of months are not such as to reduce in any way the urgency of introducing the new measures on which we have already decided and of giving further consideration to the measures which, as I have indicated, are under review. I hope that it would not need a Green Paper or any other proposal on the part of the Government to bring about a debate on unemployment. My impression, gained in going round the country over the past year, is that a whole range of interested parties are engaging in such a debate and are coming forward with proposals as to how the situation might be improved.
§ Mr. Robert HughesDoes my right hon. Friend agree that the present high levels of unemployment are the result of the failure of the free market economy? Does he not accept that history teaches us that, if we are to find the jobs in the future, we cannot look to the free market economy to find them? Will the Government now take steps to produce a Socialist plan to provide employment? Does not my right hon. Friend also agree that capitalism is not any more attractive even if it is dressed up in a kilt or a tartan Plaid?
§ Mr. BoothI had come to roughly the same conclusions as my hon. Friend before we entered the present recession, but in the course of the past 12 months I have been called upon by Members in all parts of this House for greater Government intervention. Therefore, whatever they say about the free market economy, I think that they must suspend some of their judgments for the period of this recession. I should like to point out to my hon. Friend that in Scotland the special measures have already aided 94,000 workers.
§ Mr. HayhoeIs it not a fact that unemployment has gone up not only in Scotland but also in the North-West, in the North and in Wales during the past month? Is not the underlying trend at the moment upwards rather than downwards? How can the right hon. Gentleman agree with his hon. Friends when the best hope of getting genuine job opportunities for the future lies within the private sector, and particularly the small business sector?
§ Mr. BoothBut the private sector is taking Government aid on an enormous scale, so presumably the private sector believes that the operation of a free market economy unfettered by any form of Government aid or intervention is not the right course for it to take at this juncture.