HC Deb 13 December 1977 vol 941 cc264-5
23. Mr. Gow

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what arrangements are made by his Department for monitoring cases where employees are dismissed for refusing to join a trade union; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Harold Walker

No special arrangements are made by my Department for monitoring such cases.

Mr. Gow

Ought there not to be such procedures? Are not the Government deeply concerned about occasions when people who have given a lifetime of service to an industry are dismissed without compensation? Is not monitoring required so that the Government may judge the effect of their own legislation?

Mr. Walker

If the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that the Government ought to impose a statutory obligation upon employers, I am not sure whether that would find sympathy in any part of the House. As I have explained to the hon. Gentleman before, we do not impose such obligations upon employers. I understand the latter point he has raised, and I would make a plea for closed shops to be operated in the tolerant and flexible way they were operated before the Industrial Relations Act made this such a contentious issue.

Mr. Weetch

Would my hon. Friend be prepared to monitor cases in the Post Office, where people can be dismissed without pay, in circumstances in which they find it difficult to claim unemployment benefit, because of unsubstantiated allegations about passing documents to third persons without any clearance—documents that are of no security significance at all?

Mr. Walker

I have no knowledge of the circumstances to which my hon. Friend refers, but if he will send details to me or to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry we shall look carefully into the matter.

Mr. Tebbit

Is the Minister aware that we can understand his eagerness to shuffle this matter on to the employers, but does he not agree that the Government are employers? What is the Government's policy towards dismissing people who commit the unforgiveable sin of failing to join, or being excluded from, a trade union?

Mr. Walker

I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that the Government should adopt double standards, as practised by some—one standard for people in the public sector and another for those in the private sector. We are not prepared to do that. I remind the hon. Gentleman, in case he has overlooked it, that the Church of England has come to share the view of the Government on the issue of the closed shop.