HC Deb 08 December 1977 vol 940 cc1830-1

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the draft Rates (Northern Ireland) Order 1977, which was laid before this House on 8th November, be approved.—[Mr. Dunn.]

12.15 a.m.

Rev. Ian Paisley (Antrim, North)

I want to raise one matter on this order—

Mr. J. Enoch Powell (Down, South)

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Can you help the House on this? I believe I am right in saying that this is a consolidation order and that in the case of a consolidation Bill it is not in order to raise any points except the proposition that the Bill does not correctly consolidate the law as it exists at the moment. I make no complaint about the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley) seeking to speak to the order, but could you indicate whether the same rule applies to this order, which is really Northern Ireland legislation, as applies to consolidation legislation of the House?

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Oscar Murton)

The answer is that the scope of the debate should be restricted to the desirability of consolidation.

Rev. Ian Paisley

I merely seek clarification on Article 31 with regard to the reduction of 35 per cent. of the amount of rates on certain premises. Article 31 (3)(a) says that the article applies to any hereditament which is occupied for the purposes of a club, society or other organisation that is not established or conducted for profit and does not (except on special occasions) charge for the admission of spectators to its premises. The Minister will be aware that Orange halls have had their rates jumped by a considerable amount. Does paragraph (3)(a) cover such a society, organisation or club that is not making money except on special occasions?

Mr. Powell

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I apologise for raising almost the same point again. I think that it will be understood after this evening's proceedings that there is no desire on the part of any Member of the House not to obtain information, but it would appear from the ruling you have just given that it would not be in order for the Minister to answer the question just addressed to him.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

I can only repeat that the debate should be confined to the question of consolidation.

The Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. James A. Dunn)

I have noted the question put by the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley). It might well be raised with me at a later date. If I can be of help, I will gladly write to anyone who raises it with me.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

That would be the best way out of a rather difficult situation.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved, That the draft Rates (Northern Ireland) Order 1977, which was laid before this House on 8th November, be approved.