ORDERS (Hansard, 22 April 1977)

§ Mr. Clinton Davis
I beg to move Amendment No. 77, in page 19, line 1, leave out "shall not be made".

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this amendment we may take Government Amendments Nos. 78, 79, 82, 86, 87, 88, 89, 91, and 92.

§ Mr. Davis
This series of amendments provides for future elections to the Registration Council by registered brokers. The substantial amendment is No. 86. Amendments Nos. 77 to 79 and No. 82 are paving amendments, and the rest are consequential.
The hon. Member for Faversham (Mr. Moate) suggested in Committee that all registered brokers should be able to vote for Council members. The hon. Member for Harrow, West (Mr. Page) and I undertook to consider this. I hope that this group of amendments will meet the points he had in mind.
It would obviously be impracticable—I am sure the hon. Member for Faversham will accept this—for the initial batch of brokers' representatives to be elected. Registered brokers cannot elect until they have been registered; and they cannot be registered until the first Registration Council has been formed and has begun to carry out its functions under the Bill. Amendments Nos. 86 and 87 provide that 650 the 12 nominated broker-members of the first Council will be replaced within four years by broker representatives elected by registered brokers.
I hope that the hon. Gentleman will accept that we have done our best to meet him on this point. The elections will be held in accordance with a scheme to be drawn up by the Council and submitted to the Secretary of State within two years of its setting up. It will then be for the Secretary of State to approve the scheme with or without modifications.

§ Mr. Moate
It would be ungrateful of me not to acknowledge that the Under-Secretary and my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow, West (Mr. Page) have been as good as their word and have met, at least in part, the points that were made in support of the case for election of the Council by all registered brokers, not simply by those who were members of the existing bodies or members affiliated to the British Insurance Brokers Association.
I wish to record my appreciation of the action of the Under-Secretary and of my hon. Friend and at the same time record the fact once more that the Government or my hon. Friend have tabled or accepted amendments that I moved to the Bill. If the Government or anyone else persist in saying that my intentions are totally dishonourable, I am bound to point out that many of the constructive points I have made have been met and have been accepted. If I had not been as persistent as I have been, the Bill might have looked much worse than it now does.
May I deal, without being out of order, with the allegation made by the Under-Secretary of State? In any case, I shall not be any more out of order than the Under-Secretary was by making the allegation. The hon. Gentleman said that I am here to kill the Bill. He knows very well that there is plenty of time hereafter to deal with the remaining stages of the Bill. That may not always be the case with private business on a Friday, but he knows that it is the case at this stage of the session. He knows also that there have probably already been discussions about time being provided for the remaining stages of this Bill.

§ Mr. McCrindle
In the light of what my hon. Friend has just said, are we 651 entitled to assume, as he has spoken extensively at all stages of the Bill, so far, that in the event of further time being provided we shall hear a little less from him?

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
Order. Might I encourage the hon. Member for Faversham (Mr. Moate) to proceed with Amendment No. 77, in which case we would be killing two birds with one stone?

§ Mr. Moate
May I make the point, in response to that made by the Minister—who said that he was seeking to meet the case that I had put in Committee—that my contributions seem to have been productive rather than destructive. I hope that an exhaustive examination will continue on this amendment and others in the future. I repudiate the suggestion that on a Friday such as this one Member can or would kill a Bill. That is not the case. Bills can be killed only by the apathy of their supporters or by the mal-intent of the Government. The Government have tabled 68 amendments to the Bill—

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
Order. May we deal with Amendment No. 77?

§ Mr. Moate
I was really, in a roundabout way, Mr. Deputy Speaker, expressing my gratitude to the Government for the helpful amendments that they have tabled. I said that they have only half met my point, but perhaps half a cake is better than none. My point is that only about 3,000 of all brokers are affiliated to existing organisations which have come together to form the British Insurance Brokers' Association. There have been estimates that 9,000 to 10,000 people call themselves insurance brokers and may seek registration. It is also argued that many of those people do not wish to become members of these associations. Had they so wished they might already have applied to join. Perhaps some would not meet the criteria but many would. However, they have decided not to apply.
I was pleased with the way in which the Minister and my hon. Friend accepted the fact that it would be wrong to force people to join an association or else face the possibility of being dis- 652 enfranchised during the election of members to the British Insurance Brokers' Registration Council. I am disappointed that this election cannot be held earlier. I can see that there are practical difficulties but I cannot understand why we have to wait for four years before the election takes place. The Minister ought to have been a little more generous there and said that the election could take place in, say, two years' time. It is not satisfactory to have to wait for four years.
I am happy to concede that the Minister has gone out of his way to be helpful. I am particularly glad that we have now provided that there is a statutory obligation on the Council to produce plans for a wider franchise. As it stood, it was merely a matter of hope that in time the Insurance Brokers' Council would produce some wider franchise to allow all those who are not members of the BIBA to have a vote. It is proper that there should be a statutory obligation to produce plans for elections. This is a helpful step and I thank the Minister and my hon. Friend for their acceptance of the case I put in Committee.