Transport Policy

HC Deb 27 October 1976 vol 918 cc445-8

3. Mr. Ioan Evans

asked the Secretary of State for Transport what consideration is being given to establishing an integrated road and railway transport system; and if he will make a statement.

18. Mr. Montgomery

asked the Secretary of State for Transport whether he will now make a statement on the transport consultation document.

23. Mr. Durant

asked the Secretary of State for Transport whether he will now make a statement on the transport consultation document.

25. Mr. Robin F. Cook

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects to publish a White Paper on transport policy.

Mr. William Rodgers

Over 1,000 comments have been received on the transport policy consultation document and I have now begun a programme of oral hearings with the principal organisations to explore their views more fully. I hope to publish a policy statement, probably in the form of a White Paper, in the spring of next year.

Mr. Evans

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his appointment. When he has considered the representations that he has received on the consultation document, will he consider suggesting, in a White Paper, the setting up of a National Transport Council, as outlined in the consultation document, its terms of reference being to integrate the road and rail systems? Will he bear in mind that if we had an integrated road and rail system some of the heavy freight traffic that is now carried in juggernaut lorries on highly congested roads could be taken on to the underused railways, and that that would be a far more effective and efficient system for the country?

Mr. Rodgers

My hon. Friend puts his finger on a number of important aspects of the consultation document, on which, as I have said, we have already received evidence and which we are now discussing with some of those who made particular points to us. I cannot possibly start to make policy-type statements now, tomorrow, or very soon. The important thing is to consider all these matters thoroughly. I hope that it will be possible to devise a formula by which we shall have stability for the whole transport industry for 10 years, 15 years, or perhaps even to the end of the century.

Mr. Durant

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a delay until the spring is not good enough, bearing in mind that British Rail has already proposed to put up fares again in the spring? Some of my constituents will then face fares of over £400 a year to get to work. Does the right hon. Gentleman realise the social and economic problems that this causes in a town like Reading?

Mr. Rodgers

I appreciate the social and economic problems that affect all those who are obliged to pay sharply rising fares. I do not wish to underrate that problem. However, I hope that the hon. Gentleman and others will reflect that if we are to make the right policy decisions, and if we are to have the consultation on which I have already been pressed today, the period of a year from the publication of the consultation document to the publication of a White Paper is not really a very long time.

Mr. Cook

Does my right hon. Friend accept that many of his right hon. and hon. Friends welcome the lengthy period of consultation that he is going through, but regard the proposed substantial increase in fares in the meantime as pre-empting his policy options? Is lie aware that as recently as May British Rail indicated that many passengers had stopped travelling by rail as a result of the fares increase, and that any further increase in passengers leaving rail and going on to the roads would be bound to increase subsidies and increase the cost of the road programme?

Mr. Rodgers

I am anxious not to preempt any of the options that I may have. For that reason I shall be less forthcoming that I might otherwise have chosen to be in making announcements in the meantime. I must put it to my hon. Friend that these are difficult decisions for management. It is a question of finding a balance, and this must be found within the public expenditure figures that are clearly set out in the White Paper that was published early this year. It will be hard enough for me to defend the existing rail subsidy; there can be no question whatever of increasing it.

Mr. Stephen Ross

Contrary to the answer that the right hon. Gentleman gave to the previous Question, does he accept that an integrated road-rail system would help to keep fares at a sensible level? Will he publish a summary of the representations that have already been made to him on the consultation document?

Mr. Rodgers

I have considered whether to publish a summary, but it would be very difficult to carry out. I think that most of those who submitted evidence have published it themselves, which they were entitled to do. I think that any summary I made would be open to argument, and would probably be as much condemned as the consultation document was by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner).

Mr. Spearing

Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the unsatisfactory features of the consultative document was the bad way in which waterways were described and treated? Will he assure the House that his review will include a review of the capital funding of common roadways and common waterways, which at the moment are not on a similar basis?

Mr. Rodgers

Alas, waterways were omitted from the responsibilities that I inherited rather over a month ago. However, I take my hon. Friend's point and shall consult accordingly.

Mr. Gwynfor Evans

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there would be an integrated system in Wales and increased prosperity and efficiency for rail and road services if we had a Welsh National Transport Board? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that is still an urgent necessity?

Mr. Rodgers

I note the hon. Gentleman's special pleading. I do not complain, but I do not believe we shall solve these problems by inventing boards and authorities to take on the responsibilities of decision-making, which I think is properly the role of Government and Parliament.

Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that he will not delay the rebuilding or improvement programme for strategic roads, especially those serving the ports, while awaiting any formal integrated policy for transport?

Mr. Rodgers

I shall delay no necessary decisions, but, equally, I shall keep my options open.