HC Deb 14 October 1976 vol 917 cc746-8

Lords amendment: No. 7, in page 6, line 23, leave out "paragraph" and insert "paragraphs".

Mr. Wellbeloved

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

Mr. Speaker

With this, we may consider Lords Amendment No. 8, in page 6, line 37, at end insert— (fff) the reference to an officer under instruction in section 93(1) above shall include a reference to a person under instruction who is qualified for membership of courts-martial under paragraph (ff) above;

Mr. Wellbeloved

That will be convenient, Mr. Speaker. These amendments introduce no change of policy, being designed to clarify procedures at courts martial to provide for Crown servants sitting under instruction.

Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles (Winchester)

I wish to refer to Lords Amendment No. 9, in Clause 22, the closing words of which are … this Act shall come into force on such day as the Secretary of State may by order made by statutory instrument appoint.

Mr. Speaker

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. and gallant Gentleman, but we are dealing with Lords Amendments Nos. 7 and 8 at the moment. We shall be coming to Amendment No. 9 presently.

Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles

I beg your pardon, Mr. Speaker. I thought that the Minister was referring to the following amendment.

Mr. Wellbeloved

I was.

Mr. Speaker

In that event, I must apologise to the hon. and gallant Gentleman. Perhaps he will proceed.

Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles

I was referring to the last few lines of the insertion proposed by their Lordships—

Mr. Ronald Bell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. When the Minister referred to the next amendment, I think he meant that he was dealing with Amendment No. 7 and also with Amendment No. 8. Amendment No. 9 deals with a totally different subject.

Mr. Wellbeloved

It may be that. inadvertently, I confused the issue. I moved that this House should agree with Lords Amendments Nos. 7 and 8. I have a special point to make on Amendment No. 9.

Mr. Speaker

I am grateful to have the hon. Gentleman's confession. I was right in the first place.

Mr. Ronald Bell

I wonder whether the Minister could say what Amendment No. 8 means?

Mr. Wellbeloved

This again is a drafting amendment to obtain greater clarity, and again I shall be happy to take up the point in greater detail.

This amendment was designed to clarify the procedures at courts martial where Crown servants were sitting under instruction. It introduces no change of policy, but it helps to effect more fully the intention behind the clauses.

Under Rule 24 of the Rules of Procedure (Army) 1972, an officer may remain with a court martial throughout the proceedings as an officer under instruction. Section 93(1) provides that an oath shall be administered to such officers. Since references to such officers shall now include references to the appropriate Crown servants, the latter will now be required to take an oath as well.

That is the purpose of this very simple amendment. I hope that that explanation will satisfy the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Bell).

Mr. Ronald Bell

May I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on reading word for word what the noble Lord, Lord Winterbottom, said in the House of Lords? Could he have been reading the same document, and what does it mean?

Mr. Wellbeloved

I shall take advantage of the procedure adopted by my noble Friend Lord Winterbottom, not only by using his words but also by adopting his subsequent practice. By that I mean that I shall write to the hon. and learned Gentleman with a detailed explanation of the point on which he requires elucidation.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendment agreed to.

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