CITATION ETC. (Hansard, 14 October 1976)

§ Mr. Wellbeloved
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
This amendment concerns the commencement of the various provisions in the Bill. Not all of these provisions can come into effect immediately on Royal Assent, since there remain a number of important and time-consuming tasks—among them the consequential amendments to Service manuals and the training of the personnel who will be involved with the new procedures. Although all these matters are in hand, in the Services, the Ministry of Defence and the other Departments concerned, they are not expected to be fully resolved until well into 1977.
This sort of time scale accords entirely with the normal custom on the Service Discipline Acts. The new subsection (7A) therefore provides with the 749 present subsection (8) that most of these provisions shall come into force on such date or dates as the Secretary of State may by order made by Statutory Instrument appoint, and is no different in principle from the old subsection (7).
However, it is considered that some matters could and should come into force without delay, and the new subsection (7) therefore provides for their immediate effect on Royal Assent. Apart from the continuation and renewal sections, these are chiefly those provisions that bear particularly on individuals, the new powers in relation to the graver sentences that may be imposed on juveniles, and the application to civilians found guilty under the Service Discipline Acts of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. I think that the House will welcome their speedy introduction.

§ Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles
I hope that my third attempt to intervene will lead to satisfaction. I refer to the last lines of Amendment No. 9 which say: This Act shall come into force on such day as the Secretary of State may by order made by statutory instrument appoint. I do not think that the Secretary of State should have the authority to bring this Bill into effect until he has remedied one very grievous anomaly—the anomaly whereby a member of the IRA, caught by the Armed Forces and convicted of terrorism, can be awarded £11,000 in damages for having a bag put over his head during interrogation, while our soldiers who are wounded and often killed on duty receive no such munificence.
The Secretary of State has a very special responsibility to Service men. He must look after their interests very carefully because nobody else is in a position to do so. It cannot be emphasised too often what a remarkable job our Armed Forces are doing in terrible conditions in Northern Ireland and their conduct is an example to the whole nation.
In passing a Bill designed to clear up a number of relatively minor matters affecting Service men, we should not be so insensitive as to omit any reference to this huge and glaring anomaly.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I am afraid the hon. and gallant Gentleman is straying beyond the terms of the amendment. 750 [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] I do not seek approval at this stage. I merely draw to the hon. and gallant Gentleman's attention the fact that the Question is, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment". We cannot discuss what should be an amendment, only what is in it.

§ Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles
I believe, then, that the Secretary of State should not be authorised to bring this Bill into effect at all until the unfairness I have mentioned is remedied.

§ Mr. David Walder
I shall leave out subsection (6) and resist the temptation to send my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Bell) a postcard on previous matters. When we come to subsection (7) and the Secretary of State's putting this whole procedure into force, we recognise that obviously it will take some time to train and accustom personnel to work what is, in fact, a new system. We accept that there must be some delay.
I do not wish to sound carping but I recollect that there were plans for this sort of Act in the possession of the previous Administration. In fact, there has been a great deal of time spent on boiling this particular egg, including the time taken in Standing Committee. Therefore. I urge that in the interests of the Service personnel and their dependants the time should be as short as possible.

§ Mr. Wellbeloved
It is our intention to act as speedily as possible in introducing these provisions into full operation. The training of personnel must be undertaken very carefully, particularly in respect of the standing civilian courts and the administration necessary to maintain them. There is also the question of translating the detailed technical and legal points of the Bill into language more readily understood by officers of the Forces who have the responsibility and duty of operating the Bill.
I shall convey the hon. Gentleman's views, including his opinion about the urgency, to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State.
I cannot deal as fully as I might have wished with the point raised by the hon. and gallant Member for Winchester (Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles), but I take this opportunity of paying tribute to the 751 Army in Northern Ireland. Whatever may be one's views on the issue, there can be no doubt in anyone's mind that our soldiers in the situation with which they are confronted act with great courage and restraint.