§ 12. Mrs. Castleasked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether any regulation has been issued by his Department instructing the social security offices as to what type of television sets shall be provided to people on social security and specifying that they shall be coloured ones with sliding doors.
§ Mr. OrmeThe Supplementary Benefits Commission does not in any circumstances make provision for television sets—black and white or colour, with or without legs, with or without doors. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for the opportunity to make this clear once again.
§ Mrs. CastleIs my right hon. Friend aware that my Question is based, word for word, on a statement made by the hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. Smith) in an interview with the Health and Social Services Journal of 5th November, in which he claimed that he gathered that there was such a regulation in force? Is my right hon. Friend further aware that the hon. Member, in the same article, said that he had tabled a Question to verify this allegation, but that he has tabled no such Question, nor has he made any attempt to find out the facts? Does not my right hon. Friend think that it is outrageous that the Liberal Party should join in this irresponsible scrounger-scaremongering on unsubstantiated allegations? In view of what has 679 appeared in this article, can we ever trust the word of a Liberal again?
§ Mr. OrmeI can confirm the facts given by my right hon. Friend to be absolutely accurate. The hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. Smith) has submitted no Questions. He has written no letters to the Department. He has reiterated this statement, I understand, in a local paper. I will say to my right hon. Friend that, while it arouses a certain amount of amusement, it does a great deal of damage to people who genuinely need help. In fact, the average amount paid to a person in 1975, as exceptional needs payment, was £18.18.
§ Mr. Nicholas WintertonOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I ask your advice whether the right hon.—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would follow up this matter at the end of Question Time.
§ Mr. PardoeIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the party of William Beveridge and Lord Keynes can hardly be accused of joining in any campaign against scrounging? Is he further aware that, whatever may be the case—about colour television sets I know not what happens in Rochdale, nor am I responsible for it—there is, unfortunately, a general view that television sets, provided that they can be classified as furniture, are eligible for payment by the Supplementary Benefits Commission? Will he—because it would be helpful to those of us who have to fight this kind of scaremongering—like to nail that lie here and now?
§ Mr. OrmeThat is what I am attempting to do. The average amount paid in an exceptional needs payment was, as I said, about £18, and one cannot buy many television sets, black and white or colour, for that sum—[Interruption.] That is one payment. The Department watches this kind of thing extremely carefully. Many other aspects of this matter are referred to in the article written by the hon. Gentleman's hon. Friend. The Liberal Party has certainly slipped since the days of Beveridge and Keynes.
§ Later
§ Mr. Nicholas WintertonOn a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. Will you advise 680 the House whether it is a tradition and custom of the House that it an hon. or right hon. Member is to mention another Member by name, the proper course is to notify that Member in advance? I believe that it would have been helpful to the House if we had known this earlier during Question Time.
§ Mr. SpeakerI understand that that is the normal convention which hon. Members follow. I do not know whether it was followed in today's circumstances.