HC Deb 19 November 1976 vol 919 cc1790-3

Lords Amendments Nos. 59 to 61 disagreed to.

Lords amendment: No. 62, in page 27. line 26, leave out or deputy member" and insert "and deputy members".

Mr. Ennals

I beg to move, That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said amendment.

Mr. Speaker

With this we are taking Lords Amendment No. 63, plus the Government amendment in lieu thereof, Lords Amendments Nos. 64 and 65, plus the Government amendment in lieu thereof, and Lords Amendments Nos. 66 and 67, plus the Government amendment in lieu thereof.

Mr. Ennals

Their Lordships carried a group of six amendments, Nos. 62 to 67 to paragraph 10 of Schedule 1. Taken together, their effect is to require more than one deputy to be appointed for each member of the Board and each member of the Scottish and Welsh Committees.

The Government believe that there was some doubt in the minds of their Lordships about whether the Bill as sent to the Lords already provided for one deputy to be appointed for each member. We consider it possible that, mistakenly, their Lordships thought that the amendment they carried achieved what they had in mind. That is a good definition of a dog's breakfast. Their Lordships thought that thereby they were correcting a deficiency in the Bill.

It is not clear whether their Lordships intended more than one deputy to be appointed, so we thought it better to get the record straight. To remove all doubt, the Government wish to move certain amendments to the Lords amendments in this group to restore the effect of paragraph 10 of Schedule 1 to what it was before it left the House of Commons. There is to be one deputy each for the chairmen of the Board and the two committees and one deputy for each member of the Board and of the committees.

Mr. Patrick Jenkin

I should again like to thank the Secretary of State for having met the case put to him both in Committee and in another place. We seem to have a sensible arrangement now for the deputies both on the Board and on the Scottish and Welsh Committees.

As this is the last amendment which is grouped, though not the last to be called, perhaps I may say that I am delighted that on both sides of the House the plea that I made at the beginning of the proceedings has been so effectively harkened to, and that we shall have succeeded in reaching decisions on all the matters returned to us from another place.

I realise the strain that must have been imposed on the hon. Members for Preston, South (Mr. Thorne), Barking (Miss Richardson) and Lichfield and Tamworth (Mr. Grocott) who all took such a leading part in our proceedings on earlier stages of the Bill. I am appreciative that they should have remained wholly silent during the proceedings today and allowed us to make progress so that we shall be able to finish the Bill within the time set for us by the guillotine.

The right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mrs. Castle) and the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East (Mrs. Short) spoke only once. That shows that we can make progress and reach a decision on the Bill provided that hon. Members on both sides of the House contain themselves. That has been wholly desirable. We have done fairly by interests outside the House and by another place. Although we have disagreed profoundly with many of the decisions taken by the House of Commons and voted no fewer than nine times today, we can honestly say that we have done our duty.

4.30 p.m.

Mr. Ennals

I, too, should like to thank my hon. Friends. Friday is not a good time—many hon. Members on both sides have had to forgo other engagements—but we have had a large attendance. We have had not only many votes, but substantial majorities throughout. It is a great advantage to be able to show the strength of feeling that exists in the House so that their Lordships may recognise that on major and contentious issues there have been substantial votes.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords amendment disagreed to: No. 63, in page 27, line 27, leave out "a" and insert "any".

Amendment made to the Bill in lieu thereof: page 27, line 26, leave out paragraph (a) and insert— '(a) a deputy chairman to act in place of the chairman of the Board and, for each other member of the Board, a deputy member to act in his place; '.—[Mr. Ennals.]

Lords Amendment No. 64 disagreed to.

Lords amendment disagreed to: No. 65, in page 27, line 29, leave out "a" and insert "any".

Amendment made to the Bill in lieu thereof: In page 27, line 28, leave out paragraph (b) and insert— '(b) a deputy chairman to act in place of the chairman of the Scottish Committee and, for each other member of that Committee, a deputy member to act in his place; —[Mr. Ennals.]

Lords Amendment No. 66 disagreed to.

Lords amendment disagreed to: No. 67, in page 27, line 32, leave out "a" and insert "any".

Amendment made to the Bill in lieu thereof: In page 27, line 31, leave out paragraph (c) and insert— '(c) a deputy chairman to act in place of the chairman of the Welsh Committee and, for each other member of that Committee, a deputy member to act in his place.'.—[Mr. Ennals.]

Lords Amendments Nos. 68 and 69 disagreed to.

Mr. Speaker

I must inform the House that I have had notice of a manuscript amendment to be moved to the next motion to appoint Mr. Enoch Powell to the Reasons Committee. When we come to the appropriate stage in this motion, I shall put the amendment.

Motion made, and Question, That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to certain of their amendments.—[Mr. Ennals.]

put forthwith pursuant to the Order [10th November] and agreed to.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That Mr. Ennals, Mr. Patrick Jenkin, Mr. Moyle, Mr. Pendry, Dr. Vaughan be Members of the Committee.—[Mr. Ennals.]

Mr. Speaker

The amendment is, at the end add the name "Mr. Enoch Powell". I apologise. The right hon. Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell) is to move the amendment, "That the name of 'Dr. Vaughan' be added."

Mr. J. Enoch Powell (Down, South)

I beg to move an amendment to insert, after the name of Dr. Vaughan, the name of Mr. Dunlop. [Laughter.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. It has been a busy week!

Question put forthwith, pursuant to the Order [10th November], That the amendment he made:—

The House divided: Ayes 257, Noes 273.

[For Division List No. 431, see c. 1845]

Question accordingly negatived.

Main Question put forthwith, pursuant to the Order [10th November], and agreed to.

Motion made, and Question, That three be the quorum.—[Mr. Ennals.]

put forthwith, pursuant to the Order [10th November], and agreed to.

Motion made, and Question, That the Committee do withdraw immediately.—[Mr. Ennals.]

put forthwith, pursuant to the Order [10th November], and agreed to.