Mr. Boris Ponomarev

HC Deb 17 November 1976 vol 919 cc1316-9

11. Mr. Greville Janner

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he will make a statement about the meeting with Boris Ponomarev.

Mr. Tomlinson

My right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary had separate meetings with Mr. Ponomarev during the latter's visit, in the course of which there was a useful exchange of views on a wide range of issues.

Mr. Janner

Is my hon. Friend aware that the open and clear statement of policy by all Ministers in connection with this visit is appreciated, as are their objections to the persecutions of minorities within the Soviet Union? Does he feel that the Russian guests at least understood that true detente will never come about while the persecutions continue?

Mr. Tomlinson

I think that my hon. and learned Friend will understand why I do not propose to go into the details of what was said in the discussions. Mr. Ponomarev and his delegation were left in no doubt about the strength of feeling that exists about divided families, the whole range of human rights questions, and the fact that if detente is to be meaningful it has to be meaningful for people as well as for States.

Mr. Blaker

Are not the activities of Mr. Ponomarev relevant to how the Soviet Union is performing its obligations under the Helsinki Agreement? In that context, will he reconsider the answer that he gave me last week, to which he referred in answer to an earlier Question today, in which he indicated that the Government do not propose to publish any review of the performance of the Helsinki Agreement before the Belgrade Conference? Is that not entirely unsatisfactory? Should the Government not consider publishing a White Paper before Belgrade assessing how the various parties—especially the main parties—have performed their obligations?

Mr. Tomlinson

That question does not arise from the Question on the Order Paper, and would have been more appropriately dealt with under Question No. 3.

Mr. Whitehead

Will my hon. Friend say whether, in the consultations with Mr. Ponomarev, the opportunity was taken to raise the question of prisoners such as Mr. Bukovsky, Mr. Moroz and Pastor Vins, who are kept in cruel and inhuman confinement in the Soviet Union? Was it put to him forcibly that they are conditions that no civilised State should allow?

Mr. Tomlinson

As I have said, Mr. Ponomarev was left in no doubt about the strength of feeling on these issues and on the issues that have been discussed involving the division of families and the denial of human rights. Every opportunity was taken to ensure that the strength of feeling which, as I have said repeatedly, rightly exists in the House and throughout the country was expressed to our visitors from the Soviet Union.

Mr. Eldon Griffiths

Does the Minister realise that what stick in people's throats are the double standards that are applied? How do the Government justify excluding a journalist from this country on the ground that his activities may be detrimental to State security—which they may well be—while at the same time welcoming with open arms a man whose avowed purpose is to bring down our system of government and whose agents are actively involved in seeking to achieve that?

Mr. Tomlinson

I can see no question of double standards. The only conclusion that the House can draw from the comments of Opposition Members is that the best way of pursuing detente, which I presume the hon. Gentleman as well as others in the House supports, is by totally isolating ourselves from any contact with those whose views we are seeking to influence and change.

Mr. Faulds

Will my hon. Friend accept that an increasing number of Members on the Government Benches are disturbed by what we see as too frequent invitations by the NEC to the anti-Socialist régimes of Eastern Europe and Russia?

Mr. Tomlinson

That is a question for which there is no ministerial responsibility. I hope that Conservative Members are not suggesting that when such visitors are in this country we should not take the opportunity, as a Government, to seek to put to them in the clearest possible terms the concern that my hon. Friend and Conservative Members express in such strong language every time they have the opportunity.

Mr. Tugendhat

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the questions that are being asked in the House today, and the number of Members on both sides of the House who are asking them, are extremely helpful in the prosecution of the case in favour of individuals in the Soviet Union? There is all the difference in the world between Ministers telling their opposite numbers in the Soviet Union about their concern, on the one hand, and making it clear to the Soviets that this is something on which there is tremendous feeling, crossing all political barriers, not merely among minorities but among everyone in the country?

Mr. Tomlinson

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. Pressure and, indeed, assistance is no use unless we have an opportunity to express our view to leading figures responsible for making decisions in the Soviet Union and other countries.