HC Deb 03 November 1976 vol 918 cc1388-90
7. Mr. MacGregor

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he has completed his negotiations for the rate support grant settlement for next year; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Shore

No. I will make a statement as soon as the negotiations are completed.

Mr. MacGregor

Can the Secretary of State bring the House up to date on the figures for local authority overspending this year? What does he intend to do about this in the grant next year? Does he realise that any reduction in the rate support grant next year in real terms will mean redundancies in local authority staffs? Will he, in fairness to the staffs, ensure that there is no further switch, as has been the practice over the last two years, from the fast-growing country areas to the depopulated inner urban areas?

Mr. Shore

I cannot give any assurance one way or the other on the particular formula which I will adopt for distribution of the grant. I have made it my business to listen very carefully to spokesmen from different local authority associations about their different interests.

The overspending situation has improved. A few months ago when we talked about overspending we were talking about £400 million; now we are talking in terms of £150 million to £200 million. While it is right that this over-spend should not continue into 1977–78—and I intend to see that it does not—I do not accept that the necessary economies which need to be made will involve the redundancies to which the hon. Member has referred.

Mr. Hardy

Does my right hon. Friend agree that when he makes the statement it will not be as outrageously and disgracefully inaccurate as the last rate support grant statement made by the Conservatives on 22nd January 1974? Will he remind the House of the outrageous inaccuracies stated on that occasion?

Mr. Shore

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I have not delved into the history of the ill-doings of my predecessors but, now that my hon. Friend has invited me to do so, I will.

Mr. Graham Page

I completely deny what the hon. Member for Rother Valley (Mr. Hardy) has said. Has the Secretary of State considered new procedures in settling the rate support grant so that in future it can be settled long before the last week in November? Great inconvenience has been caused to local authorities through this procedure which has been adopted by Governments over many years. So that local authorities will know what they can get much earlier in the year, will he consider a change?

Mr. Shore

I think that for a number of years November has been accepted as the month in which the settlement should be made. However, I am willing to hear representations on matters of this kind to see whether things can be made easier for local authorities, which have to budget ahead and obviously would welcome as much time as possible.

Mr. Speed

As the Secretary of State has had meetings with the TUC on this matter, will he also meet Members of this House, members of the CBI and representatives of ratepayers' action groups?

Mr. Shore

I have never cut myself off from hon. Members who wish to see me. As we approach the rate support grant determination, however, the physical ability of Ministers to see the very many different groups who have a legitimate interest is limited.