§ Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield)I beg to move Amendment No. 18, in page 11, line 45, after purpose ', insert:
'(including acquisition on behalf of a parish or community council)'.
§ Mr. SpeakerWith it we may also take the following amendments:
No. 19, in Clause 13, page 15, line 5, at end insert:
'(8) This section shall apply to a parish council and to a community council if the interest mentioned in subsection (1) above is held by them for a purpose for which the district council can, by virtue of any enactment, be authorised to acquire land compulsorily on their behalf'.No. 49, in Clause 24, page 29, line 7, at end insert:'(4) This section shall apply to a parish council and community council on whose behalf money has been paid into court in pursuance of the enactments mentioned in subsection (1) above as if such council had paid the money into court themselves'.No. 51, in Clause 26, page 29, line 41, after authority', insert:'or parish council or community council'.No. 62, in Clause 34, page 36, line 23, after '25', insert 26,'.
§ Mr. WintertonI wish to declare an interest in that I am an honorary vice-president of the National Association of Local Councils. I share that honour with hon. Members on both sides of the House. May I say how much I appreciate the work done by community and parish councils, whether in urban or rural areas?
The amendments are important because the parish and community councils have no direct compulsory purchase powers. Under Section 125 of the Local Government Act 1972, a district council, at the parish or community council's representation, carries out compulsory purchase proceedings and the land is eventually conveyed to the parish or community council, which pays for it. The amendment is to ensure that the parish or community council's right remains in step with the rights of the other authorities.
On Amendment No. 19, parish and community councils have no direct power 107 of compulsory purchase. I have explained the provisions of Section 125 of the 1972 Act. This amendment is even more important than Amendment No. 18. The opening words of subsection (1) differentiate between parish and community councils and other authorities, and so exclude parish and community councils. This differentiation comes about because the interest as held by the parish or community councils in the power of compulsory purchase is vested in a different authority, namely, the district council.
I hope that this rather complicated explanation is clear. The parish and community councils feel strongly that the Bill should not get things wrong; hence the amendments.
I turn now to Amendment No. 49. Land is compulsorily purchased on behalf of a parish or community council by a district council, but at the expense of the parish or community council. If a district council has paid that money into court, under the clause as it stands only the district council can take it out, even though in equity it is then bound to pay it over. If the parish or community council could do that itself, that would simplify the procedure and, what is more, perhaps save time. In considering this sort of Bill the Government should be keen not only to simplify procedures but to save time, because time is money.
I deal finally with Amendment No. 51, which is quite straight forward. I hope that the Minister will take note of it, because, if anything, this is even more desirable at this level than in larger areas, because parishes and communities often contain very small sites which are convenient to their neighbours but not needed by themselves.
This is a natural consequence of small scale. Certainly in some parishes small scale is the hallmark of the authority. For example, a parish council may wish to provide a bus shelter for use by local inhabitants, but in practice it might have to be put on a site across the road in the next parish. This amendment is to try to simplify the matter and make it easier to implement a proposal such as this.
108 7.0 p.m.
I have moved the amendments very quickly and, I hope, simply. I trust that I have been clear in my limited explanation. These matters are of importance to community and parish councils. Certainly for rural areas these councils do a remarkable amount of good work, and those who serve on them give of their time very freely and very often they have tremendous experience of the needs of their community. I hope that in responding, therefore, the Under Secretary, whom I welcome to the Dispatch Box and congratulate upon his appointment, will sympathetically reply to the points I have made.
§ Mr. Guy BarnettI can certainly begin by echoing the words of the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton) about the excellent work that parish and community councils do and the enormous amount of work done by members of those bodies voluntarily for the good of the community as a whole. I recognise the reason why it was the hon. Gentleman who moved this series of amendments. I want to deal with each of the amendments in turn—as briefly as I can, in view of the time.
Amendment No. 18 is one that we have examined. We find it to be quite otiose. Subsection (I) says that a local authority which may be authorised by a Minister of the Crown by means of a compulsory purchase order to purchase any land compulsorily for any purpose may also be authorised to acquire rights over land. As district councils have powers under Section 125 of the Local Government Act 1972 to acquire land compulsorily on behalf of parish or community councils, they will also be able to acquire rights over land compulsorily under the clause as it stands. Therefore, in our view the amendment is unnecessary and would serve only to throw doubt on the scope of the powers in Section 125 of the Act.
The effect of Amendment No. 19 would be to apply the provisions of the clause to interests in land held by parish and community councils. Subsection (1) provides that the provisions of the clause apply only where an interest in land is held by a local authority for a purpose for which the authority can by virtue of an enactment be authorised to acquire 109 land compulsorily. As parish and community councils have no powers of compulsory purchase themselves, they cannot therefore use the powers in this clause, nor can a district council act on their behalf as they will not hold the land. On the other hand, Section 124(2) of the Local Government Act 1972 gave local councils the right to overcome restrictive covenants on land they acquired by agreement after 1st April 1974, so it will no doubt be argued that they should have the same rights under Clause 13.
The difference between Clause 13 and Section 124 of the 1972 Act is that here we are providing for action to be taken after the land has been acquired and only once notice has been given so that objections can be made and an inquiry held if necessary before the Secretary of State can confirm the order. The procedure in the clause is closely modelled on the procedures for compulsory purchase and, just as parish and community councils are quite reasonably denied compulsory purchase powers, so it would be wrong to give them the very similar powers conferred by this clause.
If there are any cases where parish or community councils have acquired land before 1st April 1974 which is burdened with a restrictive covenant, there is no reason why they cannot seek to reach agreement with the landowners concerned for the covenant to be waived. At present, I am not satisfied that there are sufficient grounds to justify giving such wide-ranging powers to local councils nor indeed do I think that it would be right to introduce further complex provisions into the Bill which would impose upon the district councils the burden of acting on their behalf.
Amendment No. 49 again, unfortunately, we find unacceptable. I shall explain why shortly. However, I shall also want to explain the reasons why I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for having moved the amendment.
As the hon. Gentleman knows, parish and community councils have no powers of compulsory purchase themselves and district councils have to act on their behalf. If the district council has paid the compensation into court, the district council could be empowered to take it out, when in equity it is then bound to pay it over. While accepting that this may 110 seem a cumbersome procedure, it should be remembered that compulsory purchase orders made by district councils on behalf of parish or community councils are very rare and it would seem that there will be few if any cases where compensation is likely to have been paid into Court.
Those are all the amendments that the hon. Gentleman moved and I am sorry that in each case, unfortunately, we are not able to accept them. However, I ought to say that the last amendment revealed that Clause 24(3) as drafted does not enable a district council to apply for repayment in a case in which the money was paid into court by a former authority—that is, an authority that has ceased to exist—on behalf of the parish council. This is because the application can be made only by the local authority which holds the land, but parish councils are not local authorities for the purposes of this clause and the district council does not hold the land. We shall, therefore, have to give consideration to tabling a suitable amendment on this point in another place.
§ Mr. Nicholas WintertonI am grateful to the Under-Secretary for his explanation of why the Government do not see fit to accept the amendments. Certainly in two cases I believe that he has good grounds for doing that, although I am somewhat disappointed that he did not find it possible to accept one of the other amendments.
I hope that I am correct in interpreting from the hon. Gentleman's remarks that he fully appreciates the position of parish and community councils in the matters I have described. I hope that that interpretation is correct and that we can take from him an assurance that these matters will be continually under review and. when the Secretary of State is involved, that each and every case will be sympathetically considered. Therefore, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.