HC Deb 07 May 1976 vol 910 cc1639-52

Not amended (in the Standing Committee), considered.

11.4 a.m.

Mr. Gwilym Roberts (Cannock)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I assure hon. Members that I and my co-sponsors of the Bill do not wish to delay the House for long, but we felt that it would be appropriate to have a short debate on this very important matter because we have not had an opportunity of debating the subject of fireworks accidents since my Private Member's Bill in 1969, and there has been enormous development since then.

Fortunately, there has been a great increase in public awareness of the problem of fireworks accidents. I first became involved early in 1969, when I was approached about a very serious accident in my constituency. To my surprise, when I investigated the situation, I found a situation of which I had been totally unaware—that, far from its being an isolated case, the number of reported fireworks accidents at that time was running at well over 2,000 a year.

Fortunately, not due entirely to the Bill I introduced subsequently but mainly due to the consequent publicity, in which the media greatly co-operated, there was an enormous fall in the level of such accidents. Indeed, the number fell dramatically. The publicity and the greater public awareness following 1969 brought about a reduction of over 1,000 a year, and in the last couple of years the number has fallen below the 1,000 level—883 in 1974 and 728 in 1975. I believe, therefore, that we are making progress, due not only to the considerable contribution by Ministers but also to increasing public awareness.

This Bill is a simple measure in the sense that all it effectively does is to raise the legal age for the purchase of fireworks from 13 to 16 and increase the fines for failures in this direction and for throwing fireworks in the street. In these days, when hooliganism is a serious problem, it is appropriate to increase the penalties for it.

But the Bill is part of a package of measures which includes provisions for the registration of premises where fireworks may be kept—that is now a matter for the local authorities—the decision that certain types of fireworks such as "fly-abouts" and "helicopters" should be phased out of production and that there should be a great fall in the production of bangers over the next couple of years, and the important limitation on the period during which fireworks are to be available in the shops. They will be available only during the three weeks before 5th November. The Bill is, therefore, part of a complex package, and I believe that the House will recognise that it is an agreed package.

It is a package agreed by consumer interests and the firework manufacturers. There was a suggestion in The Times this morning that there were likely to be additional amendments today. Fortunately, we do not see those amendments. I think that they would have destroyed the agreed spirit of the Bill, and if it had proceeded from here it would have found difficulties in an amended form in another place.

I pay tribute to all the people who have contributed to the background of this package, including all the consumer interests involved and the National Campaign for Firework Reform, which may not like everything about the Bill but which has played an important part in spreading public awareness of the problem. There are also the Ministers in the Home Office who had responsibility in this area and made a considerable contribution. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department of Prices and Consumer Protection, will not mind my paying tribute also to his predecessor as Minister of State, who produced the consultative document and organised the complex consultative machinery on which the Bill and the package are based.

I also pay tribute to several of my hon. Friends, one or two of whom are not with us this morning, who have kept up in the House a general interest on fireworks matters, by putting Questions and in other ways. They, too, have made an important contribution.

I pay tribute also to the firework manufacturers. I have not always agreed with them, and I have said harsh things about them from time to time, but their attitude to the Bill and the package has been very responsible. This is probably the right way to treat the whole situation. If we have the agreement and progress in this direction, I am sure that the result will be highly satisfactory.

We have come to the Third Reading of a Bill which is a vital part of an important package which I think will make another major contribution towards bringing the annual level of firework accidents even lower. Obviously, Ministers will keep their eyes on the situation in the coming years. I am sure that the package and the Bill will make a further important contribution to reducing what is still too high a toll of fireworks accidents on and around 5th November. I am sure that the House will sympathetically consider giving the Bill a Third Reading.

11.13 a.m.

Mr. Norman Lamont (Kingston-upon-Thames)

On behalf of the Opposition, I welcome the Bill and congratulate the hon. Member for Cannock (Mr. Roberts) on having steered it through Committee and brought it, as we hope he will within a few minutes, to a successful conclusion.

The hon. Gentleman's interest in the subject is long-standing. He has done an enormous amount to develop the debate. We regard his Bill as eminently sensible.

I also congratulate the Minister on his appointment. In welcoming him to his new Department and to a debate on this subject, we look forward to debating perhaps rather more contentious issues with him on other occasions.

As the hon. Gentleman said, a number of hon. Members who have taken an interest in the subject cannot be present today. Some of them have factories manufacturing fireworks in their constituencies, a number of which are areas with high unemployment. Therefore, the hon. Gentleman will understand why, at the beginning, they showed a certain nervousness about what might be in the Bill. But the Committee stage showed that everyone, including the fireworks manufacturers, regarded this as a sensible and modest proposal, which did not damage the interests of the manufacturers.

I understand that the manufacturers are happy with the provisions of the Bill. They are happy with the raising of the age limit for purchase, which seems very sensible. Between 1972 and 1974, 58 per cent. of all severe firework injuries were sustained by children under 13 years of age, and between 20 per cent. and 25 per cent. were sustained by those between 13 and 15. Those groups should be protected by the Bill. Raising the age limit should result in parents buying the fireworks for younger children.

For some years the accident figures have been going in the right direction. Figures published at the time of the Committee stage in March showed a reduction in 1975 compared with 1974. We hope that further reductions will be encouraged by the hon. Gentleman's proposals.

We must be careful, because we are not talking about an industry in which there are a few large, powerful retailers; we are talking about products that are often distributed through rather modest, small outlets. Therefore we must be careful about the burdens that we impose on them. But we agree with the general concept of the Bill. It is easier for retailers to carry out the responsibility that the legislation will place on them. It should be emphasised that although in law the responsibility will be the retailer's, there is a big responsibility on parents to encourage their children to take a responsible attitude, and to look after their children and protect them properly.

We also welcome the fact that the inclusion of the word "apparently" in connection with the age of a purchaser protects the retailer if he makes a genuine mistake and sells fireworks to a child believing him to be older than he is.

There have been a number of other developments outside the precise provisions of the Bill. As the hon. Gentleman said, voluntary co-operation between the Government and the industry must be the way forward. We welcome the fact that no fly-about fireworks will be manufactured in future. They were always a small proportion of the total number, but it is right that this rather dangerous form of firework should be discontinued. We also welcome the trend towards the boxing of fireworks, which will make it more difficult for young children to get hold of dangerous ones.

As emerged in Committee, there are some points of concern about the consultative document, such as the registration fee, although I think that in Committee the Minister's predecessor went some way to allay the fear that the fee might be raised to such a high level that it would have a penal impact on the small retailer. I trust that there has been no change in the position.

All in all, this is a sensible measure, based on voluntary co-operation between the industry and the Government. In such an area it is extremely important not to impose restrictions that are too tight, and not to be over-restrictive, with the result that a black market is created, with people selling fireworks illegally. If that happened, accidents might become much worse and fireworks become much more dangerous.

I end as I began, by congratulating the hon. Member for Cannock.

11.20 a.m.

Mr. John Cartwright (Woolwich, East)

When I saw the title of the Bill on the Order Paper earlier this week, I thought it appropriate for the hon. Member for Woolwich Arsenal to make some comment on the subject of explosives. But, on closer examination, I found that the bangs and explosions for which my constituents are responsible are somewhat larger than those dealt with in the Bill, especially when Governments, as they sometimes are, are unwise enough to suggest running down or closing Woolwich Arsenal.

I wish to add my congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock (Mr. Roberts) not only on successfully piloting his Bill thus far but on the very sustained campaign that he has waged on this issue over the years. Like him, I feel that it is appropriate for us to have a short debate on the whole issue of fireworks and safety. But, much as I welcome the Bill, I am sure that my hon. Friend will agree that there is no room for complacency in the current situation, because the Bill by no means solves many of the problems associated with fireworks.

As the hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames (Mr. Lamont) reminded us, those most at risk are the under-thirteens. They account for more than half of all the accidents in the statistics that we have. We do not know whether they suffer these accidents by letting off fireworks themselves. We do not know whether they are the victims of hooliganism and similar incidents by older people. We do not know whether they purchase the fireworks themselves or whether they are purchased for them by their parents or other older people. Nevertheless, the evidence suggests that there has been a measure of selling to children under the 13 age limit, and this is one of the worries about the Bill because, as the hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames said, it has been illegal in the past to sell fireworks to children under 13 years of age. This raises the question of enforcement.

Mr. Gwilym Roberts

On the question of enforcement, is not the situation one of climate, rather similar to that on our roads? We accept that many drivers do not abide by speed limits. The fact that there is a certain speed limit tends to bring a near conformity to the limit. The same applies to an age limit. If the limit is set at 13, the margin of error may affect the 12 to 13 and possibly the 11 to 13 age group. But if we talk about a limit of 16, the margin of error probably affects the 14 to 15 age group, so that there is some improvement merely by changing the age limit.

Mr. Cartwright

I accept that. But it is always difficult for a retailer to be certain whether a person is under or over the age of 16. Perhaps I may quote the corollary of sales of cigarettes to children. For 40 years it has been an offence to sell cigarettes to children under 16 years of age, yet the evidence suggests that a good many cigarettes are sold to children under the age of 16. All that I am saying is that we should not allow ourselves to become complacent about the situation.

I accept that we shall go some way to creating a different climate, but the problem of enforcement raises a number of difficulties. I wonder, for instance, who will be responsible for enforcement. Shall we simply leave it to the public to create this sort of climate, as in matters like sales of cigarettes, or shall we be looking to the local authorities, in their consumer protection departments, their weights and measures offices and their public control offices, to keep a closer scrutiny in this area?

Ought not we to consider the simple method of requiring those who sell fireworks to display posters in their shops saying that it is an offence to sell fireworks to children under 16 years of age? I suggest that this could be done simply, either by a registration process with the local authority, or perhaps even by building on the existing voluntary action by the fireworks manufacturers, which, like my hon. Friend, I very much welcome. It might be possible for fireworks manufacturers to ensure that retailers to whom they supply fireworks also receive copies of a simple poster warning both shop staff and the public about the age requirements. This would go some way to meeting the problems of enforcement.

Like my hon. Friend, I welcome the figures, which show a drop in the number of accidents involving fireworks. But we must also recognise that there has been a very substantial drop in sales of fireworks. If we look at the figures in the consultative document, which show the rate of severe injuries per million fireworks sold, we see no drop at all. This is an area in which we should be concerned.

What has been happening is that the number of what might be called genuine accidents have been falling. By "genuine" accidents, I mean those which occur at family parties and at home. In this area there has been a welcome drop, and I think that this is due to the campaign which the former Minister of State initiated and to the propaganda and education in the media. Like my hon. Friend, I support the attitude and the action that various parts of the media have taken on this issue.

We have seen a welcome drop in what might be called genuine accidents. What is more worrying is that street incidents which might be associated with hooliganism have not shown the same proportional drop. In the statistics, we find that incidents in the street and other public places, which accounted for about 28 per cent. of severe accidents in the 1960s, had increased to 37 per cent. in the 1970s. Accidents and severe injuries resulting from incidents in the street have overtaken those which take place at private parties. Bearing in mind that it is already an offence to let off a firework in the street, this is a worrying aspect of the present situation.

Like a good many other people, I spend a considerable number of my Saturday afternoons in the winter at football matches. At the Valley, where Charlton Athletic play, once we get to mid-October and early November it is a constant nightmare, because some foolish individuals are prone to let off bangers in a crowd situation, and it is easy to visualise the dangers involved in that sort of situation.

That is why I hope that, in the campaign, which I trust will continue, we shall see more action concentrated on the sales of bangers to try to ensure that that risk is reduced. I recognise that the letting off of a firework in the street is already an offence, but I wonder how many prosecutions are brought. I fear that the answer is not many. That underlines the need for stronger enforcement and possibly for stronger penalties in this area. It might strengthen the situation of the police if we considered making it an offence for a child to be in possession of a firework in a public place.

As my hon. Friend said, there has been an argument running through this whole debate suggesting the total banning of fireworks. Like him, I would not go very far down that road. I recognise the pleasure that fireworks give many people. I recognise the traditional role of the 5th November celebrations, and I am all for keeping these traditions which can bring a little colour into our lives, provided they can be conducted with safety to all concerned.

Like the hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames, I recognise that a total ban would not solve the problem. It would open the door to the black market and to do-it-yourself production. Having a son doing O-level chemistry, I understand the risks involved in a ban of that sort and the encouragement to do-it-yourself production of fireworks.

On the other hand, I welcome the attitude taken by a number of retailers who have quite voluntarily decided to stop selling fireworks. A number of cooperative societies, including my own Royal Arsenal Society, decided several years ago that they were not prepared to continue selling fireworks, because they did want to risk having on their consciences even one case of a child being maimed, blinded or severely injured.

I welcome the attitude of those retailers who have taken that step.

I also welcome the attitude of the manufacturers, who have been very cooperative in trying to improve the chances of the safety package for which the former Minister of State argued for some time. I hope that we shall see further steps towards the sale of fireworks in boxes and that we shall see that bangers, especially, are not sold in small quantities, so that those who use them for hooligan-type activities can be prevented from getting them.

I very much welcome my hon. Friend's Bill. I hope that it passes rapidly into law. I believe that it is a step, if only a small one, in the right direction. I hope that the present Minister of State will continue the campaign initiated by his predecessor to ensure that a number of the aspects of fireworks and safety continue to be argued and brought to successful fruition.

11.30 a.m.

Mr. Peter Bottomley (Woolwich, West)

Explosives are prepared in the neighbouring Division represented by the hon. Member for Woolwich, East (Mr. Cartwright). In my constituency, people set them off.

The most important feature of the Bill is that it helps to re-emphasise to the public that there is a great difference between a bar of chocolate and a potentially dangerous explosive, especially in the hands of children. Raising the penalties, especially for letting off fireworks in the highway or in public places, is important. However as my neighbour the hon. Member for Woolwich, East said last week, during the fireworks period more attention should be given to prosecutions. For example, prosecutions for the sale of cigarettes to children under age amount to only 20 a year. Cigarettes are on sale throughout the year. Therefore, what is the likelihood of prosecutions for the sale of fireworks to children under age, fireworks being freely available for only a short period of the year?

We should pay more attention to those who will pay the fines in the event of prosecutions. There is one thing in common between vandalism and hooliganism and letting off fireworks in a public place—family responsibility. Families which allow their children between the ages of eight and 12 to wander around some of the major highways on the outskirts of London where their lives are at risk and families which are indifferent whether their children under the age of 13, but 16 as the law will be, are buying fireworks or cigarettes should have brought home to them the fact that they have greater influence over these matters than the people who will have to prosecute. If there were more prosecutions—I am not asking for an Albanian-type situation, but one in which prosecutions and penalties are enforced—families which are trying to bring up their children to behave in a safe way would feel that they were getting support from society's expression of its concern through the courts.

I think that the time will come when we shall recognise that bangers serve no useful purpose and that they will go the way of bear-baiting and other methods of frightening animals. I congratulate the hon. Member for Cannock (Mr. Roberts) on bringing forward this Bill. I hope that it goes through successfully.

11.33 a.m.

The Minister of State, Department of Prices and Consumer Protection (Mr. John Fraser)

First, I should like to join the congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock (Mr. Roberts) on being successful in the Ballot and bringing forward the Bill. A Member of Parliament who can say that at some time during his career he brought forward a measure which permanently saved people from injury or the risk of death, particularly the vulnerable and the innocent, has had a most satisfying experience. I congratulate my hon. Friend on what he has achieved in this Bill.

Secondly, I should like to join in the congratulations and praise for my predecessor, now a Minister of State at the Department of Industry, who is sitting beside me. My hon. Friend made considerable progress in negotiations with the industry and with the protection which can be accorded by voluntary means as well as by the Bill. I am sure that the House is grateful for his efforts.

My hon. Friend said that he was first moved to be involved in these matters as a result of a firework accident in his constituency. No doubt he, like me, has been pushed on by Mr. Noel Tobin. I had an interest arising from a similar experience. My father was a fire officer in the London Fire Brigade. On 6th November each year I would hear at the breakfast table about the injuries which had taken place the previous night. I recall hearing about a member of the London Fire Brigade who, as a result of an incident in Trafalgar Square, lost his hearing. In earlier days I was concerned about the number of injuries occasioned by fireworks to the innocent and the degree to which people needed to be protected.

The Bill will reduce the risk of injury to innocent people making their way along the street by increasing the penalties for throwing and having fireworks in public places. It will also protect the vulnerable, particularly the young, by raising to 16 the age at which fireworks can be sold to children.

My hon. Friend the Member for Woolwich, East (Mr. Cartwright) raised three matters. First, he mentioned the difficulty of enforcement. Enforcement is a difficulty with all laws. I suspect that there are not many prosecutions for bigamy. On the other hand, not many men are married to two wives at the same time. Therefore, the fact that there are not many prosecutions does not necessarily mean that the law is not being observed. However, I recognise the serious point made by my hon. Friend about the difficulty of deciding whether a child is under or over 16.

Mr. Cartwright

Does my hon. Friend accept that the basic problem of ensuring enforcement in this matter and in the sale of cigarettes to children under age is public knowledge of the law? Will he consider the possibility of ensuring that shops display simple posters drawing attention to the law?

Mr. Fraser

Shops already display an official poster which reads: Remember it is against the law to sell fireworks to children under the age of 13. I hope that goes some way to satisfying my hon. Friend.

Secondly, by raising to 16 the age at which fireworks may be sold to children, we are choosing an age at which they normally leave school. Many problems arise from children, during the lunch break, going to shops near secondary schools and buying fireworks. The fact that the age will coincide with the school leaving age will make it easier for shopkeepers to recognise whether a child is under 16. That will make it easier to enforce this provision.

My hon. Friend referred to the reduction in the sales of bangers. Later I shall refer to the package which was agreed. The reduction in the sales of bangers is perhaps the most important contribution to reducing accidents in the street.

My hon. Friend also referred to the offence of possessing fireworks by a child under 16 years of age. My predecessor considered that proposition. An important civil liberties point is at issue here. It would mean having to invest the police with the power of search. I understand that the police forces were not anxious to have that power because it raised problems of civil liberties. That is one reason why the Government have not advocated it.

We have had a long history of fireworks accidents and concern about fireworks since the institution of the celebration of Guy Fawkes Day following the incident in Parliament on 5th November 1605. The effects have been gravely injurious during those 370 years. There has been death, maiming and loss of senses. I suppose that it would have been better had James I decided to celebrate Guy Fawkes Day by an extension of the franchise than the sale of fireworks. But that is not for us to reflect on now.

I think that the Bill achieves the right kind of balance between the pleasure of fireworks and the need to protect the public. The need for protection can be illustrated by the figures. In the five years from 1971 to 1975, 5,116 people were injured by fireworks in the four-week period from October to November in each of those years. The greatest number of injuries come in the under–13 age group. Some people say that the under–13s cannot buy fireworks at the moment. The point is that, when we raise the age to 16, the chance of leakage to those below 13 will be reduced. The chances of older children, who are still under 16, buying and passing fireworks on to younger brothers and sisters will also be reduced.

I want to put the matter in perspective, as my hon. Friend the Member for Can-nock did, by pointing out that injuries caused by fireworks in the four-week period from October to November, according to figures which became available in February, showed a welcome reduction of nearly 18 per cent. in 1975 over the previous year—the lowest level since records were first kept in 1962. Serious injuries were down by 29 per cent. We should not underestimate the effect which education and propaganda have had over the past few years.

I welcome this measure. It will fit well together with the other package of measures that my hon. Friend my predecessor as Minister of State agreed with the manufacturers—namely, that the fly-about or the helicopter-type firework is to be phased out and is to cease to be available. Production of bangers will be progressively reduced by equal amounts over a two-year period to half of the 1975 output, which will mean an overall reduction of about 20 million bangers. Next, fireworks in future will be available in shops for only three weeks before 5th November, and for only a few days thereafter. Within two years, all fireworks other than bangers, sparklers and the larger individual devices, will have to be distributed in boxed selections only.

These measures have been implemented by voluntary agreement. In due course we shall be laying an Order which will be increasing the registration fee for the sale of fireworks. However, I assure the hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames (Mr. Lamont) that it will not be a penal figure that will be imposed but a perfectly sensible one.

What we have here, by a combination of legislation and co-operation from the manufacturers—to whom I pay tribute—and from a greater education about the risks of fireworks, is an improvement which will, perhaps, 370 years after Guy Fawkes' Day, when Parliament was rescued, rescue a sector of the general public from the consequences of the celebration of the rescue that we ourselves had.

I therefore wish the Bill good progress. Again I congratulate my hon. Friend on his success in the Ballot and on bringing forward this modest and short but nevertheless very important measure.

Mr. Gwilym Roberts

With the leave of the House, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I should like to make a few comments.

We have had a most useful debate. I thank all hon. Members who have taken part. We have had a number of interesting suggestions, particularly that from my hon Friend the Member for Woolwich, East (Mr. Cartwright) about the display of notices in shop windows to the effect that fireworks cannot be sold to children below the age of 16.

The important thing is that we should not regard the Bill as the end of the road in fireworks accidents but merely as an important milestone on that road. I am looking forward to having the same cooperation from the new Minister of State, whom I congratulate on his appointment, as I had from his predecessor. I accept what many hon. Members have said, particularly what was said by the hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames (Mr. Lamont), that ultimately firework accident prevention is a matter for parents. However, the Bill makes some contribution in laying down the right type of framework which can help parents to contain the accident situation.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.