HC Deb 05 May 1976 vol 910 cc1293-5
16. Mr. Lawrence

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what new measures he proposes to take to improve rural transport.

18. Mr. Nicholas Winterton

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what new measures he proposes to take to improve rural transport.

Dr. Gilbert

I refer the hon. Members to chapter 6 of the consultation document on transport policy, and in particular to paragraphs 1, 7 and 8 of that chapter.

Mr. Lawrence

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the financial difficulties now facing bus companies, county councils and car owners make the problem of rural bus services extremely urgent, especially for the elderly? A month ago the hon. Gentleman said that he intended to promote a number of experiments. What are those experiments to be, where are they to be held, and when does he intend to promote them?

Dr. Gilbert

I cannot answer the specific questions that the hon. Gentleman puts to me. However, I can tell him that we are already arranging a first meeting of the commission, on which will be represented local authorities, trade unions and the operators of rural bus services. The commission will consider the terms of the Bill, which we are hoping to introduce as soon as may be. The intention is to have three or four areas in which experiments will take place. That will relate to the relaxation of present licensing arrangements, but there is a need for safeguards for those who work in the industry and for public safety.

Mr. Winterton

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in my constituency there are many retired people and low-wage earners living in rural areas where no public transport exists? Is he further aware that they find it difficult to continue to run their cars? Will he introduce legislation to relax the public service licensing laws in rural areas?

Dr. Gilbert

I do not think there is anything I can add to what I said in reply to the hon. Member for Burton (Mr. Lawrence). The relaxation of public service licensing is a sensitive and delicate matter. The system exists for the protection of those who work in the industry and for the protection of the general public. We must proceed cautiously before moving to relax the arrangements. Clearly there is a fundamental need to consider the problem of rural transport, including the sort of problem to which the hon. Gentleman refers and from which his constituents suffer. Part of the difficulty has been the explosion of private car ownership, which has made it difficult to run public services in rural areas.

Mr. Norman Fowler

Is not the problem far more urgent than the Government have so far recognised? Do they think that a modest relaxation of licensing and a couple of experiments amount to an adequate response to this urgent situation? Do they not recognise the strength of feeling of my hon. Friend? Will they not make speedier progress?

Dr. Gilbert

I have no intention of dismantling the public service licensing system overnight merely to suit some of the doctrinaire prejudices of the hon. Gentleman. The matter is much more serious than that. Nothing whatever was done by the hon. Gentlemen's party when in power, although its members are now claiming that they want dramatic changes overnight. This is a matter that must be approached with considerable caution. The advantages and disadvantages must be weighed very carefully.