HC Deb 25 March 1976 vol 908 cc623-5
Q3. Mr. Blaker

asked the Prime Minister if he will pay an official visit to Pretoria.

The Prime Minister

I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, South (Mr. George) on 18th March, Sir.

Mr. Blaker

As the Government have been in touch with the South African Government about the withdrawal of the remaining South African troops from Angola, may I direct the Prime Minister's attention to the presence of much more numerous Cuban forces still in that country? As Dr. Fidel Castro made a statement last week in Conakry implying that Cuba might have a rôle to play in other countries in Southern Africa, is it not important that those Cuban forces, too, should be withdrawn? What are the Government doing about that?

The Prime Minister

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs has made clear, as I have, our views about intervention in Angola, but the Cuban forces have not in the last few weeks been requested by any other country in the area to intervene in its territory. If they were to intervene in any other territory, there would be a new and extremely serious situation. We have made this clear to all concerned in recent weeks as I have already informed the House.

Mr. Robert Hughes

If my right hon. Friend should visit Pretoria, would he make it clear to the South African Government that our Government give no recognition whatever to the bogus independence of the Bantustans?

The Prime Minister

Yes, we have already made that clear. This is a matter which any Government would have to decide upon. If a request for recognition as an independent State were to be received from one of the Bantustans, it would be considered in the light of the well-established criteria for recognition in all the relevant circumstances of the time. My right hon. Friend the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs explained to the House on 10th March that this was the Government's position. We think it most unlikely that the Transkei would fulfil the criteria necessary for recognition.

Q4. Mr. George Gardiner

asked the Prime Minister if he will pay an official visit to Pretoria.

The Prime Minister

I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, South (Mr. George) on 18th March, Sir.

Mr. Gardiner

Further to the question by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, South (Mr. Blaker), Mr. Gromyko this morning dismissed any question of possible Soviet involvement in Rhodesia as a fairy tale. Since Angola was clearly not a fairy tale, did the Prime Minister secure an assurance from Mr. Gromyko while he was in London that Soviet equipment would not be used to support aggression across any frontiers in Southern Africa?

The Prime Minister

We have made clear both in the meeting I had at my initiative with the Soviet Ambassador a week or two ago and in the most recent talks our views on the question of any overseas intervention in what was previously British territory in that part of Africa.

Mr. Ioan Evans

Does my right hon. Friend recall the speech of a previous Conservative leader, Mr. Harold Macmillan, when he spoke about the wind of change? Since it is now reaching gale force in Rhodesia and since two leaders in this House are supporting changes to reduce racial discrimination in that part of the world, should not the Leader of the Opposition now get up and support the stand made by the United Nations, the Organisation of African Unity, and other organisations?

The Prime Minister

The question of Rhodesia was fully dealt with by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary earlier this week. Successive Governments—Labour in the 1960s and Conservative in the early 1970s—negotiated and discussed with Mr. Smith, and no solution was forthcoming which any British Government could accept. I believe that that is still the position. I am sure, too, that the Leader of the Opposition, who was a committed member of the Government of the right hon. Member for Sidcup (Mr. Heath), will agree that we have laid down standards throughout which are binding on all parties in the House. Even if in the famous debate the Conservative Party split three ways, the record of its Government in office has fully confirmed the line we have always taken.