HC Deb 17 March 1976 vol 907 cc1295-6
1. Mr. Biggs-Davison

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will take steps to relieve mini-buses and other vehicles run by youth clubs and various charities from licensing requirements under the Road Traffic Acts.

The Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Kenneth Marks)

I am considering this matter, but I am not yet convinced that the full implications of such a step have been appreciated by those who are pressing for it.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

Is the Minister aware that we agree that this is a complicated matter and that we are grateful for his interest? Is he prepared to receive considered representations from those affected, whether in Essex or elsewhere, for there is much public interest in the matter?

Mr. Marks

Yes, the National Association of Youth Clubs and the National Council of Social Service have a working party looking at the matter, and I look forward to receiving their report. I shall need to consult the local authorities and both sides of the bus industry.

Mr. Kinnock

Apart from the specific uses that have already been mentioned, is my hon. Friend aware that the suggestion by the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mr. Biggs-Davison) and others would be strenuously opposed by workers in the transport industry? Does he agree that the idea should be approached with some circumspection by communities who think there might be some advantage in instituting the new system?

Mr. Marks

My hon. Friend is correct. There is a danger of the existing bus services being affected should this idea be considerably extended.

Mr. Speaker

Order. May I tell the House that hon. Members who remain standing after I have called someone else to speak as an indication to me not to forget them are unlikely to be called ahead of others?

Mr. Mayhew

Will the Minister bear in mind in giving the further consideration he has promised that the licensing system is at least primarily based upon the need for safety? Is it not absurd that a licence is unnecessary in these circumstances if no charge is made, whereas it is necessary when a charge is levied?

Mr. Marks

The licensing system was not based on safety, although safety should be an important factor in our consideration. It arose because of the competitive nature of the bus industry in the past. We are operating under the 1960 Act.

Mr. Les Huckfield

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that the original intention of the legislation was to meet public need and to provide protection for existing operators? Does he recognise that many Labour Members feel that if large areas of the country had mini-buses, mini-cabs and private operators as their only means of transport, that could result in transport chaos? Will he examine the possibility——

Mr. Speaker

Order. This is the time not for making a case but for asking questions.

Mr. Marks

I am examining the possibility. I have some idea of what my hon. Friend meant. The unions and the operators are extremely concerned about any relaxation of licensing, and understandably so. As my hon. Friend says, we have to think of the public interest. It might well be that existing bus services would be affected by any great extension of this system.