Local Authority Housing

HC Deb 17 March 1976 vol 907 cc1312-4

15. Mr. Lawson

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many new council houses he expects to be built in 1976 and 1977.

17. Mr. Terry Walker

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is satisfied with the present local authority housing figures; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Freeson

134,000 new local authority dwellings were started and 130,000 completed in Great Britain in 1975. Starts were therefore up by 10 per cent., on 1974 and 54 per cent. on 1973, and completions by 26 per cent. and 47 per cent. respectively. I hope to maintain this encouraging revival.

Mr. Lawson

I wish that the Minister had actually answered my Question, particularly as Table 2.7 of the Public Expenditure White Paper shows quite clearly that the gross investment in new council housing is scheduled to fall in the coming year by about 3 per cent. However, now for my supplementary question: what is the average percentage of the current cost of a new council house that is covered by rent?

Mr. Freeson

I cannot give an exact percentage off the cuff, but I shall certainly check the figures and write to the hon. Gentleman in detail.

Mr. Walker

Does not my hon. Friend agree that the great need at present is for houses to rent? Will he do something about those local authorities which at present are reticent to build more houses for rent, and will he see that they are made aware that people need houses to live in?

Mr. Freeson

Yes. I certainly welcome my hon. Friend's support in seeking to get more houses built. I hear echoes which suggest that quite a number of Opposition Members would oppose any further expansion in house building by local authorities and would, indeed, seek a reduction. I ask my hon. Friend to let me have details of the particular local authority or authorities to which he is referring, and I shall do my best to contact them with a view to checking what is going on and encouraging a bigger expansion of building in order to meet needs.

I should perhaps add that the series of visits that I am making around the country, area by area and region by region, is designed mainly to provide a means of getting larger programmes under way by detailed discussions with the local authorities concerned.

Mr. Anthony Grant

Is the Minister aware that if he knocked together the fat heads of the London dockland councils thousands of acres of land could be developed for housing without wasting public money by buying houses at Harrow and other outer London suburbs?

Mr. Freeson

If the hon. Gentleman wishes to debate municipalisation and social ownership, I am quite prepared to do so. The Question relates to new building. I point out to the hon. Gentleman that he was a member of the Government who set up the present structure for the future of dockland.

Mr. Frank Allaun

Does the Minister accept that the further and desperately needed growth in council housing is inhibited by high rents, resulting mainly from heavy loan interest charges? Therefore, will he resist the cut of £310 million a year in the housing subsidy included in the public expenditure survey, because, contrary to what he said a few minutes ago, it is bound to affect the rate of house building?

Mr. Freeson

The answer to the question about the White Paper is "No". On the general point that my hon. Friend makes, there is no evidence to suggest that there is a slow-down in local authority building for the reasons that my hon. Friend has given. In fact, in the course of the very detailed discussions that I have been having month by month with local authority representatives—I shall have met practically every chairman and housing officer throughout England by the time these visits are completed—it has become clear that there is plenty of evidence to show the contrary.

Mr. Raison

Will the Minister now answer the question of my hon. Friend the Member for Blaby (Mr. Lawson)? With reference to the question of his hon. Friend the Member for Salford, East (Mr. Allaun) and my earlier question, will he explain how the figure of £1,942 million on local government capital expenditure in the current year can possibly exclude any new building?

Mr. Freeson

The hon. Gentleman must be aware, as he has been told many times, that there is no restraint whatsoever——

Mr. Raison

Answer the question.

Mr. Freeson

—on new building. The figures quoted in the White Paper for investment in new building—[Interruption.] Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would care to listen to the answer to his question. The figures quoted in the White Paper for investment in new construction are forecast. They are not cash limits I should like to know from the hon. Gentleman in due course whether it is his wish to see a reduction in new council house building or a further increase. I should like to make it perfectly clear to him and to his hon. Friends that I expect the figures for 1976 to be in line with those for 1975.

Mr. Raison

In his earlier reply to me the hon. Gentleman said that the figures for local government capital expenditure excluded all new council building. He was obviously wrong. Will he now withdraw?

Mr. Freeson

As a matter of fact, the hon. Gentleman will be interested to know that while we have been pursuing this question——

Mr. Lawson

Answer the question.

Mr. Freeson

—I have had the point checked. The reference in the White Paper does not touch the point that the hon. Gentleman was putting to me. I suggest that he reads the table again.