Apprentices (Construction Industry)

HC Deb 16 March 1976 vol 907 cc1119-22

16. Mr. Michael Latham

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what action he is taking, in conjunction with employers and trade unions in the construction industry, to prevent apprentices currently in training having to be discharged because of shortage of work; and whether he will make a statement.

Mr. Harold Walker

The volume of work in the construction industry is a matter for my right hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for the Environment. The Training Services Agency, however, in co-operation with the Construction Industry Training Board, has enabled a range of assistance to be available to continue the training of redundant apprentices.

Mr. Latham

Is it not appalling that at least 1,000 apprentices have been discharged over the past five months because there is no work for them to do? Has the Minister nothing constructive to say about that?

Mr. Walker

The figure is rather lower than the hon. Gentleman mentioned, but I share his concern and disquiet, whatever the figure may be. The National Federation of Building Trades Employers and the Construction Industry Training Board, with the help of the TSA, are currently developing proposals that will provide more opportunities for redundant apprentices to be given training and experience in genuine work situations. Of course, there is also available from the Training Services Agency, which helps in this respect, an adoption grant of £750, which is fully funded by the Agency. I ask the hon. Gentleman to look at the problem created by the London borough of Barnet, which has just required the Brick Development Association to terminate its own training school at Colindale.

Mr. Frank Allaun

Is my hon. Friend aware that with a few exceptions the private building firms are taking on no apprentices and it is the council direct labour departments which are training the younger workers? Therefore, will he permit local authorities to take on building work for neighbouring authorities where the request is made?

Mr. Walker

My hon. Friend knows that the question of the range of activities which local authority direct works departments are permitted to carry out is a matter for the Secretary of State for the Environment. I shall confirm what he has said about the useful work that the direct works departments are doing in training apprentices. In particular the City of Manchester, whose direct works departments I shall visit very soon, has a splendid record. I understand that it is the biggest single employer of apprentices in the building industry in Manchester——

Mr. Speaker

Order. There is a limit to the length of answers, as well as questions.

Mr. Kenneth Lewis

Is the Minister aware that this is a very serious problem and that it does not make sense for the Government to be spending extra money on training if at the same time the sand is dropping out of the bottom? Does he accept that it is important that these boys should be kept on to finish their training or they will become unskilled? Will the hon. Gentleman and his Department use some imagination on this?

Mr. Walker

I was about to say in reply to the previous question that it is crucially important to maintain numbers in training and to increase them.—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. I do not know what is wrong with the House this afternoon.

Mr. Walker

It is crucial—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. The Minister must have a chance to reply to the question.

Mr. Walker

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was trying to say that it is crucially important to maintain numbers undergoing training.

18. Mr. Peter Bottomley

asked the Secretary of State for Employment by how much unemployment has risen in the past two years.

Mr. Booth

Between February 1974 and February 1976, the numbers unemployed in Great Britain increased by 654,234.

Mr. Bottomley

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell the House what will be the contribution of pay restraint in the next two years towards reducing unemployment, and what was the contribution of the pay explosion in 1974 to increasing it?

Mr. Booth

I do not think it is possible to make any precise calculations of the effect of pay policy on levels of unemployment. The ability of the Government to finance a number of steps to mitigate the worst effects of unemployment has been realised as a result of co-operation between the trade unions and the Government on pay policy and a number of other matters.

Mr. Fernyhough

Will my right hon. Friend say by how much unemployment would have arisen if the Government had implemented the public expenditure cuts demanded by the Opposition?

Mr. Booth

There is no doubt that if the Government had followed the policies recommended by the Opposition—policies involving massive cuts in public expenditure—we would by now have had a very high level of unemployment. That is why it is of the maximum importance to insist upon a policy that will result in no immediate cuts in public expenditure.

Mr. Prior

How does the right hon. Gentleman reconcile the figure of 654,000 additional people out of work in the last two years with the statement in the Labour Party's manifesto about Labour getting people back to work?

Mr. Booth

I reconcile that by reference to the fact that the policies pursued by the Government have held the level of unemployment in this country below that of many other countries in a similar trading position.

Mr. Cryer

Does my right hon. Friend not agree that increasing unemployment is due to a crisis of capitalism? Does he accept that we should be introducing more, not less planning? Should not that planning include selective import controls and a prohibition on individual companies to take abroad work which is often the result of design and development carried out by British workpeople? For example, should we not stop firms moving factories to Japan?

Mr. Booth

The greatest lay-offs, redundancies and rises in unemployment stem from developments in the private sector. There is a clear indication to support the contention of my hon. Friend that there must be more effective economic planning to deal with this situation. Both of us are pledged to an election manifesto which makes precisely that proposal.