HC Deb 11 March 1976 vol 907 cc609-11
12. Mr. Tebbit

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he remains satisfied that his present powers are adequate to prevent illegal immigration.

Mr. Roy Jenkins

All reasonable and practicable measures are taken to prevent illegal entry, and we see no requirement at present for additional powers to secure the removal of those found to have entered illegally.

Mr. Tebbit

Does the Home Secretary agree that there is still considerable public disquiet about illegal immigration, which has been added to recently by confused statistics? Does he agree that as that leads to disquiet among the indigenous community, which can lead to hostility against immigrants as a whole, he should do more and be seen to do more to eliminate illegal immigration into Britain?

Mr. Jenkins

I am very much in favour of taking firm action to prevent illegal immigration, and indeed, certainly to punish those who organise it, and very heavy penalties are available.

Whatever may be the state of confusion or non-confusion about statistics, that does not bear upon illegal immigration. It could conceivably bear upon overstaying, but not upon illegal immigration, which is illegal entry into the country and about which, by its very nature, there cannot be statistics. However, I assure the House that I am certainly determined to stop illegal entry.

Mr. Whitelaw

I welcome the Home Secretary's views on the need to stop any illegal immigration. However, is he satisfied about overstaying? Can he give a clear answer to the fears of many people that substantial numbers of students and visitors are overstaying, and are "disappearing", as it is said, into some communities? Will he conduct an investigation? When he has done so, if it is necessary will he take further powers to stop this process? I think that the right hon. Gentleman will agree that that is what is damaging and dangerous, and perhaps more so in terms of numbers than illegal immigration.

Mr. Jenkins

Yes. I do not necessarily dissent from the right hon. Gentleman's view. I am glad that he accepts—he naturally would—the distinction between illegal immigration, which is when people come into the country when they have no right to land and land here from a small boat, or whatever it is, and overstaying, which is when people come in legally but do not observe the legal conditions under which they have come in. I could not say that this does not exist as a problem, but I believe that its size may be exaggerated.

I shall bear in mind what the right hon. Gentleman said on Second Reading of the Race Relations Bill. If there are any further steps that we can take in order to assure both the indigenous and immigrant community that overstaying in this way is not a form of cheating that we can countenance, I shall take them.

Mr. Arthur Lewis

I thank my right hon. Friend for his last reply. Is he aware that many instances of people overstaying have been brought to my notice? Those people have then been allowed to stay here. In my constituency there is a large immigrant population, and some of the immigrants have been complaining that their wives and relatives have been waiting, sometimes for years, to be allowed to come in through the normal and proper channels. The immigrants deeply resent the fact that although some of their own friends, relatives and others cannot come in, some students come in, overstay and then ask for permission to stay on, and I know from my postbag that many of them do so.

Mr. Jenkins

It is possible to exaggerate the numbers. I reiterate that I am sure that it is essential to be fair and to be seen to be fair. I take note of what my hon. Friend has said. I assure him that the discretion—if there be discretion—to allow people to overstay, which is very occasionally necessary in rather exceptional circumstances, is and should be exercised extremely sparingly.

Mr. Lane

What progress are the Government making in their talks with the French, Belgian and Dutch Governments with a view to stamping out the cross-Channel illegal immigration racket?

Mr. Jenkins

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I have had a number of talks with Ministers of the Interior in other countries. This matter has not been central to our discussions, but I shall bear it in mind when we come to the conference of European Ministers of the Interior of the Community, which I hope will take place within a matter of three months.