§ Q3. Mr. James Lamondasked the Prime Minister when he next hopes to meet political leaders of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
§ The Prime MinisterMr. Brezhnev, Mr. Kosygin and Mr. Gromyko have all accepted in principle invitations to visit this country, Sir. Dates for these visits have still to be confirmed, but we hope to announce shortly the timing of Mr. Gromyko's visit.
§ Mr. LamondWill my right hon. Friend use the opportunity of these meetings to carry on the initiative that he took more than a year ago to increase friendship and co-operation with the USSR by means of trade? Is that not much more constructive in building peace than the belligerent speeches that we have heard from the Leader of the Opposition and her friends on the Opposition Benches?
§ The Prime MinisterI have nothing to say about certain speeches, but it has been the policy of successive Governments to try to build up trade with the Soviet Union, ever since the war. I believe that we are now beginning to see the results of the agreement of a year ago. As the House will know, and as will anyone who is in touch with some of our major industries, there are some very big contracts under discussion.
§ Mr. TugendhatDoes the Prime Minister agree that one of the West's greatest 243 assets in dealing with the Soviet Union is that we are much more technologically advanced than they are? Will the right hon. Gentleman make clear to the leaders of the Soviet Union that deals of the sort that he signed are, in effect, providing our technology to them on the cheap, at subsidised rates, and are not compatible with the Russians' attitude towards détente?
§ The Prime MinisterI agree with the hon. Gentleman's first few words. However, in fact, all trade consists of exchanges of technology, and we are in very strong competition with leading Western countries, including France, West Germany and Italy, particularly, and it is right that we should get the contracts. If the hon. Gentleman wants to opt out of that trade—I am sure that he does not, because he understands these matters so well—on the grounds of the philosophy that he has enunciated, I can tell him that it would simply mean far fewer chances for this country. On the question of subsidised rates of interest, which I think is what the hon. Gentleman meant, we have had to follow the ruling rate there, which was set by other Western European countries, but at Rambouillet we proposed that there should be exchanges of views on a common policy on these matters.
§ Mr. HefferWhen my right hon. Friend next meets the leaders of the Soviet Communist Party, will he explain to them the philosophy of the democratic Socialists in this and other countries—that we are much opposed to the idea of dissidents being put in prison, that we are against Jews not being allowed to leave the Soviet Union, and that we believe that democratic Socialist means democracy? Will my right hon. Friend begin to explain this concept—that people who have sympathy with the socialised economy of Russia have no sympathy with the political bureaucracy that exists there at present?
§ The Prime MinisterI entirely agree. Those very thoughts are matters that I have put many times to the Soviet leaders—and first put in 1947, when I was dealing with Stalin and Mikoyan.
§ Mr. TapsellIn view of the expansion of Soviet imperialist influence in Southern Africa, would it not be more appropriate, before the Prime Minister meets Mr. Brezhnev, for him first to fly 244 to Washington to discuss with President Ford methods by which the Western alliance can ensure that the peoples of Southern Africa can work out their own destinies without foreign imperialist intervention?
§ The Prime MinisterMy right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and I are in the closest touch with the Soviet Union and Western European countries on these matters. We shall lose no opportunity of making clear our views about Soviet intervention in Southern Africa.