HC Deb 03 March 1976 vol 906 cc1303-6
19. Mr. Monro

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations he has had with the local authorities concerning the sufficiency of bus services for the travelling public; and what effect any reduction will have on employment.

20. Mr. Corrie

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further help he intends to give the rural areas to assist in preventing a complete breakdown in rural transport.

Mr. Millan

After consultation with the local authorities, I have made sufficent provision in the rate support grant settlements, for this year and next, to enable authorities to deal with requests from public transport operators for assistance to maintain services. But it is for each regional and island council to decide what assistance to provide, in the light of its own expenditure priorities and its assessment of the level of service needed in its area.

Mr. Monro

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the anxiety felt by bus drivers and conductors that they may become unemployed and by the travelling public about the lack of services? In view of the cost of inflation to local authorities, will he reconsider his policies in this regard?

Mr. Millan

No, Sir. I have explained the position to the STUC. The amount of subsidy going to the Scottish Bus Group from the regional authorities in the current year is, because of the authorities' decision, less than the amount provided for in the rate support grant. There is no question of the Government's not providing sufficient sums. As for next year, the amount provided for in the rate support grant could accommodate the demands that the Scottish Bus Group has made on the regional authorities, even if they were met in full. These are matters that the regional authorities must decide for themselves, and these questions should be put to the regional authorities and not to me.

Mr. Alexander Wilson

When considering rural bus services and subsidisation of some of the private firms involved, will my right hon. Friend consider instructing British Rail to resuscitate some of the branch lines which were closed in the past 10 or 20 years? They would be much more satisfactory to the Scottish public than some of the bus routes.

Mr. Millan

I dare say they would be, but I am not in a position to instruct British Rail about anything. A considerable sum is already going into British Rail for capital programmes and current subsidies, and I can hold out no hope of reopening branch lines.

Mr. Corrie

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a number of the people who lobbied hon. Members some weeks ago are now suggesting taking industrial action, which is very sad? If the right hon. Gentleman has not spoken to them, will he suggest that that action would do no one any good, particularly the people who would suffer in the rural areas?

Mr. Millan

I have met the STUC and representatives of the unions principally concerned about the matter and explained the position. I agree that industrial action is not the way to solve the problem, but I repeat that the approach should now be to the regional councils. Perhaps it would help if I wrote to the two hon. Members concerned explaining the position and made the letter public, so that the public could understand the position.

Mr. David Steel

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that not just today but several times at the Dispatch Box he has unfortunately given the impression of washing his hands of the whole matter and passing the buck to the regional authorities? Does he accept that the subsidy demanded of the Borders Region will have increased tenfold in two years and that the Government are not compensating the authority for that? When will the Government introduce new legislation?

Mr. Millan

It is not a question of passing the buck: we have passed the money. The hon. Gentleman's regional council was asked for £250,000 in the current year, and it has agreed only £200,000, which is not out of line with other regions in Scotland. The authority of the hon. Member for Dumfries (Mr. Monro) was asked for £600,000 and volunteered only £380,000. The sums that have gone to the Scottish Bus Group in the current year are less than was provided for in the rate support grant. Therefore, I accept no responsibility for those figures. I want to see good rural bus services, but the House has put the responsibility on the local authorities and hon. Members should take up the matter with them first.

Mr. Cryer

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Scottish Tories are as hypocritical as their English counterparts? Outside the House they call for public expenditure cuts, but in the Chamber they want more money to be spent by the Government when a matter affects their own constituency, even to the extent of trying yesterday to pass legislation to reduce standards by eroding the 1968 Transport Act.

Mr. Millan

I agree with my hon. Friend. We shall be glad to welcome him more often to Scottish Question Time if he asks such intelligent and penetrating supplementary questions.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Does the Minister acknowledge that the threatened explosion of bus fares will particularly hit those who live in rural areas, where it will increase the cost of living? What representations has he made to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to make sure that at least the other form of transport in rural areas—the private car—is fairly treated in the forthcoming Budget?

Mr. Millan

I am sure that my right hon. Friend will read with interest what the hon. Gentleman has said.

Mr. Thompson

We have had a campaign urging us to "Save it", but should we not now have a campaign urging us to "bus it", and heed what is said?

Mr. Millan

Yes, if people did that, some of the problems would disappear. Most of those who come to me to complain about bus services get into their private cars and drive away when they leave me.