§ Mr. Denzil DaviesI beg to move Amendment No. 2, in page 2, line 10 leave out from "time" to "and" in line 11.
The purpose of the amendment is to reverse Opposition Amendment No. 29 which was carried against the Government in Standing Committee. The effect of that amendment was to reduce the deemed disposal consideration by an amount equal to what would have been the incidental cost had there been an actual sale. The Government amendment restores the original position, in which the interest concerned shall be deemed to have been disposed of for a consideration equal to market value without allowance for purely notional expenses.
The Opposition carried an amendment in Committee which would have provided that costs which had not been incurred on the deemed disposal and reacquisition would have been allowable in computing the tax at that point. Although there would not have been a conveyance of the land there was to be a deeming provision so that the costs of that conveyance would have been deducted from the calculation of tax. This is not the intention of the legislation. The amendment would often give the taxpayer a double relief because on eventual sale he would get the costs again on that conveyance but he would not pay the tax twice and would only pay the extra amount of tax on Development value over and above the value at the time of deemed disposal.
If the amendment were to remain we would be giving double relief in respect of costs which were not incurred. I therefore ask the House to reverse the Committee's decision.
§ Mr. Graham PageI should have thought that the Minister would take his defeat graciously and not try to reinstate in the Bill the subject of a Committee 1746 defeat. If there is to be deemed disposal there should be deemed costs relative to that disposal so that we get the true figure. I strongly object to the Government steam-rollering out of the Bill what was put in by the Committee. I hope that my hon. Friends will support me in opposing the Government amendment.
§ 11 p.m.
§ Mr. RidleyI object to the treatment being meted out to the Minister by the Government Front Bench. He has been here for seven hours today—following a seven-hour stint yesterday—without relief or assistance from senior colleagues. He has had to defend the Government's lousy proposals single-handed.
The last time I raised this matter, I said the Minister had had no food, water or rest. He replied that he had some water available, but I see that even the decanter which held the water is now empty. By the way, the decanter is not marked to show hiw much water it contained in accordance with the resolution of the House earlier this week.
§ Mr. BudgenIs my hon. Friend aware that if the Minister were an animal he would not be allowed to travel on the railways in the conditions in which he is now working?
§ Mr. RidleyWhen I see the stranded whales who have come to support the Minister with their presence, if not their voices, I feel that the animal analogy used by my Friend is very apt. Certainly if the Minister were a lorry driver, he would by now have driven more miles than would be lawful and would be allowed to drive the Bill into the night.
Our sympathy is entirely with the Minister, we feel he has been badly treated. if there is another Minister within earshot who understands the Bill, I appeal to him to relieve the Minister of State and let him get a square meal. He needs some beans on toast. He cannot be expected to go on defending the Government amendment after amendment, day after day and night after night. If there needs to be a by-election 1747 in the Minister's constituency shortly—which is the last thing we want—it will be entirely the fault of the Government.
The Minister is losing his grip due to extreme fatigue. His attempt to delete an amendment passed in Committee is a mistake. If we are to have a deemed disposal, we should surely have deemed costs to be chargeable against tax. I hate the word "deemed" in legislation. There should be no "deemed" anything for tax purposes. However, if it is to be fair for the Inland Revenue to deem that a gain or profit has been made, it
§ must be fair for the taxpayer to deem that expenses have been incurred. In many cases they will have been incurred.
§ In view of the Committee's decision and the obvious wish of the House to have the amendment retained in the Bill, I hope the Minister will think again before creating this injustice for the taxpayer.
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 288, Noes 257.
1751| Division No. 195.] | AYES | [11.04 p.m. |
| Abse, Leo | de Freitas, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Allaun, Frank | Dell, Rt Hon Edmund | Hughes, Roy (Newport) |
| Anderson, Donald | Dempsey, James | Hunter, Adam |
| Archer, Peter | Doig, Peter | Irvine, Rt Hon Sir A. (Edge Hill) |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Dormand, J. D. | Irving, Rt Hon S. (Dartford) |
| Ashton, Joe | Douglas-Mann, Bruce | Jaskson, Colin (Brighouse) |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston N) | Dunn, James A. | Jackson, Miss Margaret (Lincoln) |
| Atkinson, Norman | Dunnett, Jack | Janner, Greville |
| Bagier, Gordon A. T. | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth | Jay, Rt Hon Douglas |
| Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) | Eadie, Alex | Jeger, Mrs Lena |
| Barnett, Rt Hon Joel (Heywood) | Edge, Geoff | Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) |
| Bates, Alf | Edwards, Robert (Wolv SE) | John, Brynmor |
| Bean, R. E. | Ellis, John (Brigg & Scun) | Johnson, James (Hull West) |
| Beith, A. J. | Ellis, Tom (Wrexham) | Johnson, Walter (Derby S) |
| Benn, Rt Hon Anthony Wedgwood | English, Michael | Jones, Dan (Burnley) |
| Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N) | Ennals, David | Judd, Frank |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Evans, Fred (Caerphilly) | Kaufman, Gerald |
| Bishop, E. S. | Evans, Ioan (Aberdare) | Kelley, Richard |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Ewing, Harry (Stirling) | Kerr, Russell |
| Boardman, H. | Faulds, Andrew | Kilroy-Silk, Robert |
| Booth, Rt Hon Albert | Fernyhough, Rt Hon E. | Kinnock, Neil |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Arthur | Flannery, Martin | Lambie, David |
| Boyden, James (Bish Auck) | Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) | Lamborn, Harry |
| Bradley, Tom | Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | Lamond, James |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Latham, Arthur (Paddington) |
| Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) | Ford, Ben | Leadbitter, Ted |
| Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W) | Forrester, John | Lee, John |
| Brown, Ronald (Hackney S) | Fowler, Gerald (The Wrekin) | Lestor, Miss Joan (Eton & Slough) |
| Buchan, Norman | Fraser, John (Lambeth, N'w'd) | Lever, Rt Hon Harold |
| Buchanan, Richard | Freeson, Reginald | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) |
| Butler, Mrs Joyce (Wood Green) | Freud, Clement | Lipton, Marcus |
| Callaghan, Jim (Middleton & P) | Garrett, John (Norwich S) | Litterick, Tom |
| Campbell, Ian | Garrett, W. E. (Walisend) | Lomas, Kenneth |
| Canavan, Dennis | George, Bruce | Loyden, Eddie |
| Cant, R. B. | Gilbert, Dr John | Luard, Evan |
| Carmichael, Neil | Ginsburg, David | Lyons, Edward (Bradford W) |
| Carter, Ray | Golding, John | Mabon, Dr J. Dickson |
| Carter-Jones, Lewis | Gould, Bryan | McCartney, Hugh |
| Cartwright, John | Gourlay, Harry | McElhone, Frank |
| Clemitson, Ivor | Graham, Ted | MacFarquhar, Roderick |
| Cocks, Michael (Bristol S) | Grant, George (Morpeth) | McGuire, Michael (Ince) |
| Cohen, Stanley | Grant, John (Islington C) | Mackenzie, Gregor |
| Coleman, Donald | Grimond, Rt Hon J. | Mackintosh, John P. |
| Colquhoun, Ms Maureen | Grocott, Bruce | Maclennan, Robert |
| Cook, Robin F. (Edin C) | Hamilton, James (Bothwell) | McMillan, Tom (Glasgow C) |
| Corbett, Robin | Hardy, Peter | McNamara, Kevin |
| Cox, Thomas (Tooting) | Harper, Joseph | Madden, Max |
| Craigen, J. M. (Maryhill) | Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) | Magee, Bryan |
| Cronin, John | Hart, Rt Hon Judith | Mahon, Simon |
| Cryer, Bob | Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy | Mallalleu, J. P. W. |
| Cunningham, G. (Islington S) | Hatton, Frank | Marks, Kenneth |
| Cunningham, Dr J. (Whiteh) | Hayman, Mrs Helene | Marquand, David |
| Dalyell, Tam | Heffer, Eric S. | Marshall, Dr Edmund (Goole) |
| Davidson, Arthur | Hooley, Frank | Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) |
| Davies, Bryan (Enfield N) | Howell, Rt Hon Denis | Maynard, Miss Joan |
| Davies, Denzil (Llanelli) | Howells, Geraint (Cardigan) | Meacher, Michael |
| Davies, Ifor (Gower) | Hoyle, Doug (Nelson) | Mellish, Rt Hon Robert |
| Davis, Clinton (Hackney C) | Huckfield, Les | Mendelson, John |
| Deakins, Eric | Hughes, Rt Hon C. (Anglesey) | Mikardo, Ian |
| Dean, Joseph (Leeds West) | Hughes, Mark (Durham) | Millan, Bruce |
| Miller, Mrs Millie (Ilford N) | Robinson, Geoffrey | Tomlinson, John |
| Mitchell, R. C. (Soton, Itchen) | Roderick, Caerwyn | Tomney, Frank |
| Molloy, William | Rodgers, George (Chorley) | Torney, Tom |
| Moonman, Eric | Rodgers, William (Stockton) | Tuck, Raphael |
| Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) | Rooker, J. W. | Urwin, T. W. |
| Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) | Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight) | Varley, Rt Hon Eric G. |
| Morris, Rt Hon J.(Aberavon) | Ross, Rt. Hon W. (Kilmarnock) | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne V) |
| Moyle, Roland | Rowlands, Ted | Walden, Brian (B'ham, L'dyw'd) |
| Mulley, Rt Hon Frederick | Sandelson, Neville | Walker, Terry (Kingswood) |
| Murray, Rt Hon Ronald King | Sedgemore, Brian | Ward, Michael |
| Newens, Stanley | Selby, Harry | Watkins, David |
| Noble, Mike | Shaw, Arnold (Ilford South) | Watkinson, John |
| Oakes, Gordon | Sheldon, Robert (Ashton-u-Lyne) | Weetch, Ken |
| Ogden, Eric | Shore, Rt Hon Peter | Weitzman, David |
| O'Halloran, Michael | Short, Rt Hon E. (Newcastle C) | Wellbeloved, James |
| Orbach, Maurice | Short, Mrs Renée (Wolv NE) | White, Frank R. (Bury) |
| Orme, Rt Hon Stanley | Silkin, Rt Hon John (Deptford) | White, James (Pollok) |
| Ovenden, John | Silkin, Rt Hon S. C. (Dulwich) | Whitehead, Phillip |
| Owen, Dr David | Sillars, James | Whitlock, William |
| Palmer, Arthur | Silverman, Julius | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Park, George | Skinner, Dennis | Willey, Rt Hon Frederick |
| Parker, John | Small, William | Williams, Alan (Swansea W) |
| Parry, Robert | Smith, Cyril (Rochdale) | Williams, Alan Lee (Hornch'ch) |
| Pavitt, Laurie | Smith, John (N Lanarkshire) | Williams, Rt Hon Shirley (Hertford) |
| Peart, Rt Hon Fred | Spearing, Nigel | Williams, Sir Thomas |
| Pendry, Tom | Stallard, A. W. | Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton) |
| Penhaligon, David | Stewart, Rt Hon M. (Fulham) | Wilson, Rt Hon H. (Huyton) |
| Perry, Ernest | Strang, Gavin | Wilson, William (Coventry SE) |
| Phipps, Dr Colin | Strauss, Rt Hon G. R. | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Prentice, Rt Hon Reg | Summerskill, Hon Dr Shirley | Woodall, Alec |
| Prescott, John | Swain, Thomas | Woof, Robert |
| Price, C. (Lewisham W) | Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery) | Wrigglesworth, Ian |
| Price, William (Rugby) | Thomas, Mike (Newcastle E) | Young, David (Bolton E) |
| Radice, Giles | Thomas, Ron (Bristol NW) | |
| Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn (Leeds S) | Thorne, Stan (Preston South) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Richardson, Miss Jo | Tierney, Sydney | Mr. Peter Snape and |
| Roberts, Albert (Normanton) | Tinn, James | Mr. David Stoddart. |
| Roberts, Gwilym (Cannock) | ||
| NOES | ||
| Adley, Robert | Corrie, John | Hall-Davis, A. G. F. |
| Alison, Michael | Critchley, Julian | Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) |
| Amery, Rt Hon Julian | Crouch, David | Hampson, Dr Keith |
| Arnold, Tom | Crowder, F. P. | Hannam, John |
| Atkins, Rt Hon H. (Spelthorne) | Davies, Rt Hon J. (Knutsford) | Harvie Anderson, Rt Hon Miss |
| Awdry, Daniel | Dean, Paul (N Somerset) | Hastings, Stephen |
| Baker, Kenneth | Dodsworth, Geoffrey | Havers, Sir Michael |
| Banks, Robert | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Hawkins, Paul |
| Bell, Ronald | Drayson, Burnaby | Hayhoe, Barney |
| Bennett, Dr Reginald (Fareham) | du Cann, Rt Hon Edward | Heseltine, Michael |
| Benyon, W. | Dunlop, John | Hicks, Robert |
| Berry, Hon Anthony | Durant, Tony | Higgins, Terence L. |
| Biffen, John | Dykes, Hugh | Holland, Philip |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Hordern, Peter |
| Blaker, Peter | Elliott, Sir William | Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Body, Richard | Emery, Peter | Howell, David (Guildford) |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Evans, Gwynfor (Carmarthen) | Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk) |
| Bottomley, Peter | Eyre, Reginald | Hunt, David (Wirral) |
| Bowden, A. (Brighton, Kemptown) | Fairbairn, Nicholas | Hunt, John |
| Boyson, Dr Rhodes (Brent) | Fairgrieve, Russell | Hurd, Douglas |
| Bradford, Rev Robert | Farr, John | Hutchison, Michael Clark |
| Braine, Sir Bernard | Fell, Anthony | Irving, Charles (Cheltenham) |
| Brittan, Leon | Fisher, Sir Nigel | James, David |
| Brocklebank-Fowler, C. | Fletcher-Cooke, Charles | Jenkin, Rt Hon P. (Wanst'd & W'df'd) |
| Brotherton, Michael | Fookes, Miss Janet | Jessel, Toby |
| Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) | Forman, Nigel | Johnson Smith, G. (E Grinstead) |
| Bryan, Sir Paul | Fox, Marcus | Jones, Arthur (Daventry) |
| Buchanan-Smith, Alick | Fry, Peter | Jopling, Michael |
| Buck, Antony | Galbraith, Hon. T. G. D. | Joseph, Rt Hon Sir Keith |
| Budgen, Nick | Gardiner, George (Reigate) | Kaberry, Sir Donald |
| Bulmer, Esmond | Gardner, Edward (S Fylde) | Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine |
| Butler, Adam (Bosworth) | Gilmour, Rt Hon Ian (Chesham) | Kershaw, Anthony |
| Carlisle, Mark | Gilmour, Sir John (East Fife) | Kimball, Marcus |
| Carson, John | Glyn, Dr Alan | King, Evelyn (South Dorset) |
| Chalker, Mrs Lynda | Goodhart, Philip | King, Tom (Bridgwater) |
| Clark, Alan (Plymouth, Sutton) | Gorst, John | Kitson, Sir Timothy |
| Clark, William (Croydon S) | Gow, Ian (Eastbourne) | Knight, Mrs Jill |
| Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | Gower, Sir Raymond (Barry) | Knox, David |
| Clegg, Walter | Grant, Anthony (Harrow C) | Lamont, Norman |
| Cockcroft, John | Gray, Hamish | Lane, David |
| Cooke, Robert (Bristol W) | Griffiths, Eldon | Langford-Holt, Sir John |
| Cope, John | Grist, Ian | Lawrence, Ivan |
| Cordle, John H. | Grylls, Michael | Lawson, Nigel |
| Cormack, Patrick | Hall, Sir John | Lester, Jim (Beeston) |
| Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) | Oppenheim, Mrs Sally | Smith, Dudley (Warwick) |
| Lloyd, Ian | Osborn, John | Spence, John |
| Loveridge, John | Page, John (Harrow West) | Spicer, Jim (W Dorset) |
| Luce, Richard | Page, Rt Hon R. Graham (Crosby) | Spicer, Michael (S Worcester) |
| McCrindle, Robert | Parkinson, Cecil | Sproat, Iain |
| McCusker, H. | Pattie, Geoffrey | Stainton, Keith |
| Macfarlane, Neil | Percival, Ian | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| MacGregor, John | Peyton, Rt Hon John | Stanley, John |
| Macmillan, Rt Hon M. (Farnham) | Pink, R. Bonner | Steen, Anthony (Wavertree) |
| McNair-Wilson, M. (Newbury) | Powell, Rt Hon J. Enoch | Stewart, Ian (Hitchin) |
| McNair-Wilson, P. (New Forest) | Price, David (Eastleigh) | Stokes, John |
| Madel, David | Prior, Rt Hon James | Stradling Thomas, J. |
| Marshall, Michael (Arundel) | Pym, Rt Hon Francis | Tapsell, Peter |
| Marten, Neil | Raison, Timothy | Taylor, R. (Croydon NW) |
| Mates, Michael | Rathbone, Tim | Taylor, Teddy (Cathcart) |
| Maude, Angus | Rawlinson, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Tebbit, Norman |
| Maudling, Rt Hon Reginald | Rees, Peter (Dover & Deal) | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin | Reid, George | Thomas, Rt Hon P. (Hendon S) |
| Mayhew, Patrick | Renton, Rt Hon Sir D. (Hunts) | Townsend, Cyril D. |
| Meyer, Sir Anthony | Renton, Tim (Mid-Sussex) | Trotter, Neville |
| Miller, Hal (Bromsgrove) | Ridley, Hon Nicholas | Tugendhat, Christopher |
| Mills, Peter | Ridsdale, Julian | van Straubenzee, W. R. |
| Miscampbell, Norman | Rifkind, Malcolm | Vaughan, Dr Gerard |
| Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) | Rippon, Rt. Hon Geoffrey | Viggers, Peter |
| Moate, Roger | Roberts, Michael (Cardiff NW) | Wakeham, John |
| Molyneaux, James | Roberts, Wyn (Conway) | Walder, David (Clitheroe) |
| Monro, Hector | Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks) | Walker, Rt Hon P. (Worcester) |
| Montgomery, Fergus | Ross, William (Londonderry) | Walker-Smith, Rt Hon Sir Derek |
| Moore, John (Croydon C) | Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey) | Wall, Patrick |
| More, Jasper (Ludlow) | Rost, Peter (SE Derbyshire) | Walters, Dennis |
| Morgan, Geraint | Royle, Sir Anthony | Watt, Hamish |
| Morgan-Giles, Rear-Admiral | Sainsbury, Tim | Weatherill, Bernard |
| Morris, Michael (Northampton S) | St. John-Stevas, Norman | Wells, John |
| Morrison, Charles (Devizes) | Scott, Nicholas | Whitelaw, Rt Hon William |
| Morrison, Hon Peter (Chester) | Scott-Hopkins, James | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Mudd, David | Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Neave, Airey | Shelton, William (Streatham) | Wood, Rt Hon Richard |
| Nelson, Anthony | Shepherd, Colin | Young, Sir G. (Ealing, Acton) |
| Neubert, Michael | Shersby, Michael | Younger, Hon George |
| Newton, Tony | Silvester, Fred | |
| Normanton, Tom | Sims, Roger | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Nott, John | Sinclair, Sir George | Mr. Spencer Le Merchant and |
| Onslow, Cranley | Skeet, T. H. H. | Mr. Carol Mather. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Mr. Denzil DaviesI beg to move Amendment No. 3, in page 2, line 19, leave out 'subsection (1) above' and insert 'this Act'.
This is a drafting amendment to make the interpretation Clause, now Clause 47, a comprehensive index of terms used in the Bill. As a result, Clause 47 now assigns to the term "major interests" the definition in Clause 2(3). The need for a comprehensive index was raised in Committee by the Opposition. We met most of their criticisms in Committee but could not do so in this case until now.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Mr. Denzil DaviesI beg to move Amendment No. 5, in page 3, line 4, leave out 'fifty' and insert 'thirty-five'.
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bryant Godman Irvine)It will be convenient to discuss at the same time the following amendments:
§ No. 6, in page 3, line 4, leave out 'fifty' and insert 'twenty-five'.
1752§ Government Amendment No. 7.
§ No. 8, in page 3, line 8, leave out 'of less than fifty' and insert 'not exceeding twenty-five'.
§ Government Amendment No. 9.
§ No. 10, in page 3, line 17, leave out 'fifty' and insert 'twenty-five'.
§ Government Amendment No. 123.
§ No. 124, in Schedule 1, page 82, line 5, leave out '50' and insert 'twenty-five'.
§ Mr. DaviesThese amendments result from the debates in Committee.
As the Bill stands, there is a major interest even though the lease to which the reversion is subject is not a long lease. Under Clause 2(4) a lease is a long lease if it has more than 50 years to run at the date of the deemed disposal. The amendment seeks to reduce this period to 35 years, thus allowing more leases to qualify as long leases.
The other amendments ensure that the widening of relief does not affect the rule which regards reversions on leases as major interests and so subject to deemed 1753 disposal procedure. There was criticism in Committee to the effect that 50 years was too long a period. It was said that leases with reversions of 50 years were not worth much. As a result of those criticisms we looked at the matter again. These amendments seek to reduce the period to 35 years, which we believe is more reasonable.
We held discussions with the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors. As a result of representations and discussions, we concluded that 35 years was the right period for the reversion to be a major interest for the purposes of the legislation.
§ Mr. Graham PageWe considered that as the Bill stood 50 years was a ridiculous period. We therefore proposed an amendment to reduce the period of 50 years to one of 25 years, as being more consonant with the value of the reversion to a lease becoming a major interest in the property.
§ At this stage of the Bill we have tried to compromise a little further—but not merely for the sake of compromise. As a result of the advice that we have received we believe that 25 years is the right period. The Minister proposed the period of 35 years. He puts the Opposition in a little difficulty. If we vote against his amendment—which seeks to substitute the figure 35 for the figure 50—it will appear that we wish to retain the period of 50 years. The only method open to us to register our objection is to vote against the Minister's amendment to insert "35". We wish to insert "25". I do not think that the Minister's proposal sufficiently meets our wishes.
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 280, Noes 266.
1757| Division No.196.] | AYES | [11. 23 p.m. |
| Abse, Leo | Cunningham, G. (Islington S) | Graham, Ted |
| Allaun, Frank | Cunningham, Dr J. (Whiteh) | Grant, George (Morpeth) |
| Anderson, Donald | Dalyell, Tam | Grant, John (Islington C) |
| Archer, Peter | Davidson, Arthur | Grocott, Bruce |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Davies, Bryan (Enfield N) | Hardy, Peter |
| Ashton, Joe | Davies, Denzil (Llanelli) | Harper, Joseph |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston N) | Davies, Ifor (Gower) | Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) |
| Atkinson, Norman | Davis, Clinton (Hackney C) | Hart, Rt Hon Judith |
| Bagier, Gordon A. T. | Deakins, Eric | Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy |
| Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) | Dean, Joseph (Leeds West) | Hatton, Frank |
| Barnett, Rt Hon Joel (Heywood) | de Freitas, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Hayman, Mrs Helene |
| Bates, Alf | Dell, Rt Hon Edmund | Heffer, Eric S. |
| Bean, R. E. | Dempsey, James | Hooley, Frank |
| Benn, Rt Hon Anthony Wedgwood | Doig, Peter | Howell, Rt Hon Denis |
| Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N) | Dormand, J. D. | Hoyle, Doug (Nelson) |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Douglas-Mann, Bruce | Huckfield, Les |
| Bishop, E. S. | Duffy, A. E. P. | Hughes, Rt Hon C. (Anglesey) |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Dunn, James A. | Hughes, Mark (Durham) |
| Boardman, H. | Dunnett, Jack | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Booth, Rt Hon Albert | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth | Hughes, Roy (Newport) |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Arthur | Eadie, Alex | Hunter, Adam |
| Boyden, James (Bish Auck) | Edge, Geoff | Irvine, Rt Hon Sir A. (Edge Hill) |
| Bradley, Tom | Edwards, Robert (Wolv SE) | Irving, Rt Hon S. (Dartford) |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Ellis, John (Brigg & Scun) | Jackson, Colin (Brighouse) |
| Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) | Ellis, Tom (Wrexham) | Jackson, Miss Margaret (Lincoln) |
| Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W) | English, Michael | Janner, Greville |
| Brown, Ronald (Hackney S) | Ennals, David | Jay, Rt Hon Douglas |
| Buchan, Norman | Evans, Fred (Caerphilly) | Jeger, Mrs Lena |
| Buchanan, Richard | Evans, Ioan (Aberdare) | Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) |
| Butler, Mrs Joyce (Wood Green) | Ewing, Harry (Stirling) | John, Brynmor |
| Callaghan, Jim (Middleton & P) | Faulds, Andrew | Johnson, James (Hull West) |
| Campbell, Ian | Fernyhough, Rt Hon E. | Johnson, Walter (Derby S) |
| Canavan, Dennis | Flannery, Martin | Jones, Dan (Burnley) |
| Cant, R. B. | Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) | Judd, Frank |
| Carmichael, Neil | Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | Kaufman, Gerald |
| Carter, Ray | Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Kelley, Richard |
| Carter-Jones, Lewis | Ford, Ben | Kerr, Russell |
| Cartwright, John | Forrester, John | Kilroy-Silk, Robert |
| Clemitson, Ivor | Fowler, Gerald (The Wrekin) | Kinnock, Neil |
| Cocks, Michael (Bristol S) | Fraser, John (Lambeth, N'w'd) | Lambie, David |
| Cohen, Stanley | Freeson, Reginald | Lamborn, Harry |
| Coleman, Donald | Garrett, John (Norwich S) | Lamond, James |
| Colquhoun, Ms Maureen | Garrett, W. E. (Wallsend) | Latham, Arthur (Paddington) |
| Cook, Robin F. (Edin C) | George, Bruce | Leadbitter, Ted |
| Corbett, Robin | Gilbert, Dr John | Lee, John |
| Cox, Thomas (Tooting) | Ginsburg, David | Lestor, Miss Joan (Eton & Slough) |
| Craigen, J. M. (Maryhill) | Golding, John | Lever, Rt Hon Harold |
| Cronin, John | Gould, Bryan | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) |
| Cryer, Bob | Gourlay, Harry | Lipton, Marcus |
| Litterick, Tom | Owen, Dr David | Strauss, Rt Hon G. R. |
| Lomas, Kenneth | Palmer, Arthur | Summerskill, Hon Dr Shirley |
| Loyden, Eddie | Park, George | Swain, Thomas |
| Luard, Evan | Parker, John | Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery) |
| Lyons, Edward (Bradford W) | Parry, Robert | Thomas, Mike (Newcastle E) |
| Mabon, Dr J. Dickson | Pavitt, Laurie | Thomas, Ron (Bristol NW) |
| McCartney, Hugh | Peart, Rt Hon Fred | Thorne, Stan (Preston South) |
| McElhone, Frank | Perry, Ernest | Tierney, Sydney |
| MacFarquhar, Roderick | Phipps, Dr Colin | Tinn, James |
| McGuire, Michael (Ince) | Prentice, Rt Hon Reg | Tomlinson, John |
| Mackenzie, Gregor | Prescott, John | Tomney, Frank |
| Mackintosh, John P. | Price, C. (Lewisham W) | Torney, Tom |
| Maclennan, Robert | Price, William (Rugby) | Tuck, Raphael |
| McMillan, Tom (Glasgow C) | Radice, Giles | Urwin, T. W. |
| McNamara, Kevin | Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn (Leeds S) | Varley, Rt Hon Eric G. |
| Madden, Max | Richardson, Miss Jo | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne V) |
| Magee, Bryan | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) | Walden, Brian (B'ham, L'dyw'd) |
| Mahon, Simon | Roberts, Gwilym (Cannock) | Walker, Terry (Kingswood) |
| Marks, Kenneth | Robinson, Geoffrey | Ward, Michael |
| Marquand, David | Roderick, Caerwyn | Watkins, David |
| Marshall, Dr Edmund (Goole) | Rodgers, George (Chorley) | Watkinson, John |
| Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) | Rodgers, William (Stockton) | Weetch, Ken |
| Maynard, Miss Joan | Rooker, J. W. | Weitzman, David |
| Meacher, Michael | Ross, Rt. Hon W. (Kilmarnock) | Wellbeloved, James |
| Mellish, Rt Hon Robert | Rowlands, Ted | White, Frank R. (Bury) |
| Mendelson, John | Sandelson, Neville | White, James (Pollok) |
| Mikardo, Ian | Sedgemore, Brian | Whitehead, Phillip |
| Millan, Bruce | Selby, Harry | Whitlock, William |
| Miller, Mrs Millie (Ilford N) | Shaw, Arnold (Ilford South) | Willey, Rt Hon Frederick |
| Mitchell, R. C. (Soton, Itchen) | Sheldon, Robert (Ashton-u-Lyne) | Williams, Alan (Swansea W) |
| Molloy, William | Shore, Rt Hon Peter | Williams, Alan Lee (Hornch'ch) |
| Moonman, Eric | Short, Rt Hon E. (Newcastle C) | Williams, Rt Hon Shirley (Hertford) |
| Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) | Short, Mrs Renée (Wolv NE) | Williams, Sir Thomas |
| Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) | Silkin, Rt Hon John (Deptford) | Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton) |
| Morris, Rt Hon J.(Aberavon) | Silkin, Rt Hon S. C. (Dulwich) | Wilson, Rt Hon H. (Huyton) |
| Moyle, Roland | Sillars, James | Wilson, William (Coventry SE) |
| Mulley, Rt Hon Frederick | Silverman, Julius | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Murray, Rt Hon Ronald King | Skinner, Dennis | Woodall, Alec |
| Newens, Stanley | Small, William | Woof, Robert |
| Noble, Mike | Smith, John (N Lanarkshire) | Wrigglesworth, Ian |
| Oakes, Gordon | Snape, Peter | Young, David (Bolton E) |
| Ogden, Eric | Spearing, Nigel | |
| O'Halloran, Michael | Stallard, A. W. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Orbach, Maurice | Stewart, Rt Hon M. (Fulham) | Mr. James Hamilton and |
| Orme, Rt Hon Stanley | Stoddart, David | Mr. Tom Pendry |
| Ovenden, John | Strang, Gavin | |
| NOES | ||
| Adley, Robert | Chalker, Mrs Lynda | Fry, Peter |
| Alison, Michael | Clark, Alan (Plymouth, Sutton) | Galbraith, Hon. T. G. D. |
| Amery, Rt Hon Julian | Clark, William (Croydon S) | Gardiner, George (Reigate) |
| Arnold, Tom | Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | Gardner, Edward (S Fylde) |
| Atkins, Rt Hon H. (Spelthorne) | Clegg, Walter | Gilmour, Rt Hon Ian (Chesham) |
| Awdry, Daniel | Cockcroft, John | Gilmour, Sir John (East Fife) |
| Baker, Kenneth | Cooke, Robert (Bristol W) | Glyn, Dr Alan |
| Banks, Robert | Cope, John | Goodhart, Philip |
| Beith, A. J. | Cordle, John H. | Goodlad, Alastair |
| Bell, Ronald | Cormack, Patrick | Gorst, John |
| Bennett, Dr Reginald (Fareham) | Corrie, John | Gow, Ian (Eastbourne) |
| Benyon, W. | Crouch, David | Gower, Sir Raymond (Barry) |
| Berry, Hon Anthony | Crowder, F. P. | Grant, Anthony (Harrow C) |
| Biffen, John | Davies, Rt Hon J. (Knutsford) | Gray, Hamish |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Dean, Paul (N Somerset) | Griffiths, Eldon |
| Blaker, Peter | Dodsworth, Geoffrey | Grimond, Rt Hon J. |
| Body, Richard | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Grist, Ian |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Drayson, Burnaby | Grylls, Michael |
| Bottomley, Peter | du Cann, Rt Hon Edward | Hall, Sir John |
| Bowden, A. (Brighton, Kemptown) | Dunlop, John | Hall-Davis, A. G. F. |
| Boyson, Dr Rhodes (Brent) | Durant, Tony | Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) |
| Bradford, Rev Robert | Dykes, Hugh | Hampson, Dr Keith |
| Braine, Sir Bernard | Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Hannam, John |
| Brittan, Leon | Elliott, Sir William | Harvie Anderson, Rt Hon Miss |
| Brocklebank-Fowler, C. | Emery, Peter | Hastings, Stephen |
| Brotherton, Michael | Eyre, Reginald | Havers, Sir Michael |
| Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) | Fairbairn, Nicholas | Hawkins, Paul |
| Bryan, Sir Paul | Fairgrieve, Russell | Hayhoe, Barney |
| Buchanan-Smith, Alick | Farr, John | Heseltine, Michael |
| Buck, Antony | Fell, Anthony | Hicks, Robert |
| Budgen, Nick | Fisher, Sir Nigel | Higgins, Terence L. |
| Bulmer, Esmond | Fletcher-Cooke, Charles | Holland, Philip |
| Butler, Adam (Bosworth) | Fookes, Miss Janet | Hooson, Emlyn |
| Carlisle, Mark | Forman, Nigel | Hordern, Peter |
| Carson, John | Fox, Marcus | Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk) | Moate, Roger | St. John-Stevas, Norman |
| Howells, Geraint (Cardigan) | Molyneaux, James | Scott, Nicholas |
| Hunt, David (Wirral) | Monro, Hector | Scott-Hopkins, James |
| Hunt, John | Montgomery, Fergus | Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) |
| Hurd, Douglas | Moore, John (Croydon C) | Shelton, William (Streatham) |
| Hutchison, Michael Clark | More, Jasper (Ludlow) | Shepherd, Colin |
| Irving, Charles (Cheltenham) | Morgan, Geraint | Shersby, Michael |
| James, David | Morgan-Giles, Rear-Admiral | Sims, Roger |
| Jenkin, Rt Hon P. (Wanst'd & W'df'd) | Morris, Michael (Northampton S) | Sinclair, Sir George |
| Jessel, Toby | Morrison, Charles (Devizes) | Skeet, T. H. H. |
| Johnson Smith, G. (E Grinstead) | Morrison, Hon Peter (Chester) | Smith, Cyril (Rochdale) |
| Jones, Arthur (Daventry) | Mudd, David | Smith, Dudley (Warwick) |
| Jopling, Michael | Neave, Airey | Spence, John |
| Joseph, Rt Hon Sir Keith | Nelson, Anthony | Spicer, Jim (W Dorset) |
| Kaberry, Sir Donald | Neubert, Michael | Spicer, Michael (S Worcester) |
| Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine | Newton, Tony | Sproat, Iain |
| Kershaw, Anthony | Normanton, Tom | Stainton, Keith |
| Kimball, Marcus | Nott, John | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| King, Evelyn (South Dorset) | Onslow, Cranley | Stanley, John |
| King, Tom (Bridgwater) | Oppenheim, Mrs Salty | Steel, David (Roxburgh) |
| Kitson, Sir Timothy | Osborn, John | Steen, Anthony (Wavertree) |
| Knight, Mrs Jill | Page, John (Harrow West) | Stewart, Ian (Hitchin) |
| Knox, David | Page, Rt Hon R. Graham (Crosby) | Stokes, John |
| Lamont, Norman | Parkinson, Cecil | Stradling Thomas, J. |
| Lane, David | Pattie, Geoffrey | Tapsell, Peter |
| Langford-Holt, Sir John | Penhaligon, David | Taylor, R. (Croydon NW) |
| Lawrence, Ivan | Percival, Ian | Taylor, Teddy (Cathcart) |
| Lawson, Nigel | Peyton, Rt Hon John | Tebbit, Norman |
| Le Marchant, Spencer | Pink, R. Bonner | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) | Powell, Rt Hon J. Enoch | Thomas, Rt Hon P. (Hendon S) |
| Lloyd, Ian | Price, David (Eastleigh) | Townsend, Cyril D. |
| Loveridge, John | Prior, Rt Hon James | Trotter, Neville |
| Luce, Richard | Pym, Rt Hon Francis | Tugendhat, Christopher |
| McCrindle, Robert | Raison, Timothy | van Straubenzee, W. R. |
| McCusker, H. | Rathbone, Tim | Vaughan, Dr Gerard |
| Macfarlane, Neil | Rawlinson, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Viggers, Peter |
| MacGregor, John | Rees, Peter (Dover & Deal) | Wakeham, John |
| Macmillan, Rt Hon M. (Farnham) | Rees-Davies, W. R. | Walker, Rt Hon P. (Worcester) |
| McNair-Wilson, M. (Newbury) | Reid, George | Walker-Smith, Rt Hon Sir Derek |
| McNair-Wilson, p. (New Forest) | Renton, Rt Hon Sir D. (Hunts) | Wall, Patrick |
| Madel, David | Renton, Tim (Mid-Sussex) | Watt, Hamish |
| Marshall, Michael (Arundel) | Ridley, Hon Nicholas | Weatherill, Bernard |
| Marten, Neil | Ridsdale, Julian | Wells, John |
| Mates, Michael | Rifkind, Malcolm | Whitelaw, Rt Hon William |
| Mather, Carol | Rippon, Rt. Hon Geoffrey | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Maude, Angus | Roberts, Michael (Cardiff NW) | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Maudling, Rt Hon Reginald | Roberts, Wyn (Conway) | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin | Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks) | Wood, Rt Hon Richard |
| Mayhew, Patrick | Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight) | Young, Sir G. (Ealing, Acton) |
| Meyer, Sir Anthony | Ross, William (Londonderry) | Younger, Hon George |
| Miller, Hal (Bromsgrove) | Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey) | |
| Mills, Peter | Rost, Peter (SE Derbyshire) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES |
| Miscampbell, Norman | Royle, Sir Anthony | Mr. Jim Lester and |
| Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) | Sainsbury, Tim | Mr. Fred Silvester. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Amendments made: No. 7, in page 3, line 8 leave out "of less than fifty" and insert "not exceeding thirty-five".
§ No. 9, in page 3, line 17, leave out "fifty" and insert "thirty-five".—[Mr. Denzil Davies.]