HC Deb 23 June 1976 vol 913 cc1590-2
16. Mr. Neubert

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he can now make a statement on the British Railways Board's accounts for 1975.

Dr. Gilbert

I have nothing to add to the answer that I gave to the hon. Member for Carshalton (Mr. Forman) on 26th May.

Mr. Neubert

Does the Minister agree that when the taxpayer picks up the tab for £324 million he is entitled to see that costs and overheads are cut to a minimum and that waste is eliminated? What action is the Minister taking to encourage that?

Dr. Gilbert

British Rail management is very well aware of the financial disciplines facing it. It is fighting a continuing battle to keep overheads down to the minimum practicable.

Mr. James Johnson

Last week in Hull there was a public meeting organised by Transport 2000, and anxiety was expressed about the possible closure of the Hull to Scarborough line. How often does the Minister meet the Chairman of British Rail about a Beeching-type examination of the national network? In the event of this happening, is the Minister prepared to meet a delegation of Hull and East Yorkshire MPs on the matter?

Dr. Gilbert

I am always happy to meet delegations on this or any other matter. I have had no discussions with the present or future Chairman of British Rail about any Beeching-type of examination; nor do I propose to have one.

Mr. Fry

The accounts of British Rail totally fail to give any information that would enable Parliament to make a correct judgment of the loss incurred on the various services. Will the Minister accept that we need this information before any more subsidies can be granted?

Dr. Gilbert

I am sure that the hon. Member knows that the attempt to allocate revenue or cost was tried under the Cooper Brothers formula and proved so complex that it was abandoned because it had only limited practical value.

Mr. Cryer

Will my hon. Friend encourage British Rail to try to reduce the deficit by carrying freight traffic? Will he take up with British Rail its decision to end the carriage of livestock on 1st July which, although it causes a light ripple of laughter in the House, is worth about £2 million? Is he aware that many people such as pigeon fanciers will be denied a service that is very much appreciated and that uses trains that are running anyway? Should not we interfere with British Rail's decision, because it will cost the taxpayer another £2 million?

Dr. Gilbert

Representing as I do a strong pigeon-fancying area in the Black Country, I do not treat the decision by British Rail in this respect with any frivolity. I understand that it is being looked at, however, by the Central Council of the Transport Users' Consultative Committees. I am not sure whether its decision has yet been published, so I had better be careful about what I say at this stage. I know that it is fully aware of the many representations that have been received by myself and British Rail direct from many members of the public and hon. Members on both sides of the House.

Mr. Donald Stewart

Is the Minister aware that British Rail has published an order that it will not carry unaccompanied dogs after 1st July? Dog breeders in the north-east of Scotland say that this will mean the destruction of hundreds of pups and bitches within a few weeks of the decision being implemented. As British Rail intends to carry unaccompanied dogs for research purposes, the decision appears all the more objectionable. What action will the Minister take?

Dr. Gilbert

As I am sure the hon. Member appreciates, it is not for me to interfere in the day-to-day running of British Rail, but I do not seek to hide behind that on this occasion. The problem has arisen because British Rail, as a result of actions outside its control, has been faced with the decision by the House requiring that the carriage of livestock is undertaken with due regard to the humane treatment of that livestock. That is the situation that has produced the difficulty with which hon. Members have been faced in discussions with their constituents.

Mr. Raison

Has the Minister received any evidence from British Rail that it is doing anything about reducing its unauthorised freight deficit?

Dr. Gilbert

Yes.