HC Deb 08 June 1976 vol 912 cc1210-22

4.0 p.m.

Mr. Stephen Hastings (Mid-Bedfordshire)

I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to trade union and labour relations; and for connected purposes. It has been said that Ten-Minute Bills are rather like trying to organise a "bring and buy" on the Wembley pitch just after the Cup Final. I understand this. Yet I am fortified because I believe that I am dealing with something which is fundamental to the evolution and indeed to the very existence of the House of Commons—the individual assailed by arbitrary power. The story of this place over the centuries has been that of a long struggle to limit and balance the power of man over man. If we do not stand for this we stand for nothing in this place.

Many may conclude, because I am concerned about the trade unions, and the closed shop, that the minds of hon. Members opposite will be closed to my argument before I even begin. I do not believe that, because I do not believe that hon. Members opposite, any more than my hon. Friends, can be insensitive to the sort of unkindness, waste and injustice which I have to describe. I therefore ask sincerely, for their consideration of what I have to say. I confess that although I detest the concept of the closed shop myself, I recognise that in some circumstances it may serve as a convenient arrangement for both sides in industry. I recognise also that among those who stand against it there may be from time to time, people who seek advantage without contribution. However reprehensible that may be, my case is that this can in no sense excuse, or mitigate, the sort of injustice, even evil, which can be seen to result from the closed shop that this evil has been immeasurably extended under the Act that we have just passed in this House.

Take the absurdity of religious grounds for objection. These are undefined and in the words of the Secretary of State himself are "undefinable". He said: … religious beliefs … are based on precepts of faith which can be tested only by those who possess that faith".—[Official Report, 11th July 1974; Vol. 876, c. 1701.] Amen to that. He added later: I do not know where we can find the definition of religious belief".—[Official Report, 1st October 1975, Vol. 897, c. 1390.] Well, I will tell him—ask British Rail! Mr. Cecil Lloyd appeared before their "inquisition" in Euston Square recently. This comprised representatives of ASLEF, NUR TSSA and one from management. He pleaded religious grounds—Second Corinthians verse 6 to be precise. He gets the sack on Saturday. So does Bob Harris of Gloucester. So does Mr. Cave and his son, of Nottingham. Mr. Cave has done 26 years service with British Rail. He belongs to the Christadelphians Sect, which counsels abstinence from all worldly associations, including trade unions; but because they do not specifically proscribe their members from joining a trade union freedom of conscience has been denied them, too. They got the sack. What are these people to do when they come in front of the tribunal. I suppose they must invoke the presence of God.

I wish to turn to a different kind of case—that of two ladies, Mrs. Peters and Mrs. Tarrant, who have been employed by a small firm of printers, Philip and Tacey, of Andover, Mrs. Peters since 1972 and her daughter, Mrs. Tarrant, since 1971. This case has been of particular concern to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Winchester (Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles) and happily it, at least, has attracted some publicity thanks to the vigilance of Mr. Bernard Levin. Mrs. Tarrant joined the union SOGAT but her mother, Mrs. Peters, refused, although I think she might have changed her mind had it not been for what followed. SOGAT subsequently declared her work "black" by a vote of 35 to 16 and she was obliged to sit around doing nothing. Her daughter, Mrs. Tarrant, then resigned from the union and both were subsequently subjected to a sustained campaign of badgering, vilification and bullying which lasted, according to the tribunal, from February 1973 to January 1974. No union officials were involved, but no union officials put a stop to it either. After this things were said to have improved according to the tribunal and a letter described as an "olive branch" was sent to these ladies, but they had had enough. Of course they got the sack. The last page of the tribunal report stated—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. First, it is almost impossible for me to know the interchanges below the Gangway and, secondly, a Ten-Minute Bill is usually heard in silence.

Mr. Hastings

I should be grateful for injury time, Mr. Speaker. The report said: We have no doubt that some, if not the majority, of Mrs. Peters' and Mrs. Tarrant's fellow workers were beastly to them and treated them with inhumanity But they concluded that from early 1974 the atmosphere became more relaxed and the union was prepared to let bygones be bygones". Therefore: Neither applicant had reasonable grounds for objection". I quote from Hansard: It is better that these matters should be settled by peaceful persuasion. That is the cause for which we stand and this Bill is part of our remedy."—[Official Report, 7th May 1974; Vol. 873, c. 245.] Those are the words of that apostle of liberty the present Leader of the House. I invite him to go down to Andover and to explain what he meant to Mrs. Peters and Mrs. Tarrant.

I have a letter from Mr. A. M. Potter of Keston in Kent who describes how a union called the Society of Lithographic Artists, Designers and Engravers, directly encouraged by this Act, is trying to threaten their way into advertising art, writing and photography. He writes: During all my 35 years in my trade I have never known anyone express any desire for union involvement in our affairs. Nor has there been any complaint concerning wages or conditions that has not been satisfactorily dealt with by ourselves. Our workers and employers enjoy great mutual respect. On one occasion recently when officials of this SLADE visited the studio, "blacking" notices were put up. When the employers asked whether the union had consulted the employees the answer was "We do not care what your staff says, we shall get them."

Let us consider the matter of grounds a little more widely for a moment. Mr. Rex Frost, of British Transport Hotels, when told recently "Join or go" wrote to the Manager (Train Catering Department): I am now required to sign an application on which I undertake to abide loyally by the rules of the Association and to use my best endeavours to promote its objects and interests. It would be quite wrong for me to use my best endeavours to promote any objects or interests which I believe to be harmful to my country, my employers, my colleagues and myself. To retain my job by signing a statement which I know to be false would be as dishonest as obtaining goods by signing a cheque which I knew to be worthless. Is that unreasonable? Incidentally I am informed that Mr. Frost has not had a reply to that letter.

Mr. Roger Webster, 18 years' service with British Rail, was sacked last week. He gave this, among others, as his reason for objection: Talk of benefits negotiated by the unions is nonsense. The total process of all union negotiations causes us all to be impoverished. When there is no money in the national kitty we cannot have more on the pay slip without it being borrowed money; without it having less purchasing power; without it bleeding our social structure; without it causing unemployment; without it debilitating our industry. Does the Chancellor of the Exchequer disagree with those remarks?

Anyway, by what process have these heroes in British Rail decided that their membership wants the closed shop at all? Mr. Willsteed is about to leave the shipping and international services division at Southern House. The hat was passed round on his behalf by his colleagues, and they are trade unionists. The appeal was headed "Farewell with honour". It went on: In the eyes of many of us his stand for freedom and personal conviction is a most worthy one and you may care to contribute even a token amount towards a gesture on his departure"'. All but three of his colleagues did.

What are these unfortunate people to do unless this Act is changed? I will tell hon. Members one thing. Mr. Webster whom I have already mentioned—they have picked on the wrong man in Mr. Webster—has established with some difficulty what many of us know—that this law has no parallel in West Europe, where the closed shop is either very rare or expressly forbidden by law. He is taking his case and that of 20 of his colleagues to the European Court of Human Rights where there is a very good chance that it will be seen to transgress either Article 9 or Article 11 or both. The British Government attested to the Treaty in 1951, but what a state of affairs when an Englishman has to turn to an international court for justice in his own country!

The sufferers in all these cases—and I have done my best to check this—share three qualities. They are not troublemakers of shirkers, they are loyal to their employers and they are hard-working and competent people. These qualities avail them little, it seems, in trade union-dominated Socialist Britain. Happily, however, through the Press and through organisations such as the National Association for Freedom, some of these cases are coming to light, but what worries me are those which do not come to light at all. How many are averted because people are afraid—afraid of bullying and intimidation, afraid of deprivation, afraid of the consequences of unemployment, afraid of what they regard as the inevitability of union power, against which there is no redress or possibility of appeal?

Again and again this Government claim that only they can get on with the unions. Well, this is the price of it, this toll of injustice and even persecution under the law. People tolerate this sort of thing from one motive only, and that is fear. So long as such a situation persists, this is not truly a free country and most certainly the House of Commons is failing in its duty.

I say to the hon. Members opposite that just for once they should put aside Socialist precepts and resist the pressures of the mighty outside this place. Let us all, for once, listen to the lesson of history and the warnings which these events so clearly sound for us, and—before oppression becomes a habit—let us amend this abominable law.

4.12 p.m.

Mr. Ioan Evans (Aberdare)

I rise to oppose leave being given to the hon. Member for Mid-Bedfordshire (Mr. Hastings).

This Government have a good record of improving industrial relations and repairing the damage of earlier years. The progress can be outlined by an extract from the Department of Employment Gazette for May which shows that. From January to April 1975, 2,106,000 days were lost through industrial disputes, but that in the corresponding period this year, that figure was down to 1,188,000. The first election of 1974, in February, was fought at a time of conflict and confrontation with the trade union movement. This Government have replaced that policy and we now have a policy of conciliation and co-operation.

The Government presented the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Amendment) Bill in November 1975 to reverse the Opposition amendments made, against the Government's wishes, to the Trade Union and Labour Relations Act of 1974. That Act was the first step towards the repair of industrial relations by repealing the Conservatives' notorious Industrial Relations Act of 1971. The two particular cases to which the hon. Member for Mid-Bedfordshire referred arose under the previous Government's Act.

The second step in the Government's programme for industrial relations was the Employment Protection Act, which built on the foundations laid down by the Trade Union and Labour Relations Act by extending workers' rights and strengthening collective bargaining. It provided also for guaranteed payments for those on short time, financial protection for employees whose employers became insolvent, longer notice of termination of employment and advance consultation with trade unions about planned redundancies.

The rights of workers have advanced a great deal since 1926. I was at a meeting in the Valleys of South Wales on Saturday with miners who remembered that period when miners earned 19s. 6d. and worked a six-day week. In that period, the workers bad virtually no rights. Now the trade union movement has become far stronger. The problem in Britain today is not that the unions are too strong but that they are not strong enough. We in this House should appeal to every worker, by hand or brain, to join his appropriate trade union.

If the liberty of the people of this country has been increased and enhanced, it is because of the efforts of the trade union movement. One has only to read the history of the Todpuddle Martyrs and others to see that.

Closed shop agreements between employers and unions have been legal again since September 1974, when the Industrial Relations Act was repealed. Does anyone wish to return to the time when that Act was on the statute book? Even the Conservative leadership dissociate themselves from that.

The hon. Member for Mid-Bedfordshire referred to the dismissal of Mrs. Peters and Mrs. Tarrant, which arose under the legislation of the previous Government. An independent industrial tribunal said that their dismissal was not unfair because they were considered to have no good reason for declining to join the closed shop.

Mr. Hastings rose

Hon. Members

Sit down.

Mr. Speaker

Order. In theory, both hon. Members are being heard in silence.

Mr. Evans

The main argument for resisting the Bill is that labour relations have been exhaustively discussed here and elsewhere for a number of years. I pay tribute to the Leader of the House. When Secretary of State for Employment he introduced the Trade Union and Labour Relations Act of 1974, the Employment Protection Act of 1975 and the amending Act of 1976.

The issues raised today have been raised extensively and considered during the passage of the Industrial Relations Act and before. Nothing new arises on the Bill. What is needed now is for employers, management, employees and unions to get together to get us out of our present difficulties. There has been a tremdendous response by trade union leaders. Jack Jones, High Scanlon and others are giving a lead. It is a pity that the Conservative Party could not have given the same lead over the pound.

I hope that the House will throw out the Bill and that we shall make greater progress towards improving industrial relations.

Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 13 (Motions for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of Public Business):

The House divided: Ayes 226 Noes 287.

Division No. 166.] AYES [4.20 p.m.
Adley, Robert Grist, Ian Oppenheim, Mrs Sally
Arnold, Tom Grylls, Michael Osborn, John
Atkins, Rt Hon H. (Spelthorne) Hall, Sir John Page, John (Harrow West)
Awdry, Daniel Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) Page, Rt Hon R. Graham (Crosby)
Banks, Robert Hampson, Dr Keith Paisley, Rev Ian
Beith, A. J. Hannam, John Pardoe, John
Bell, Ronald Harrison, Col Sir Harwood (Eye) Parkinson, Cecil
Bennett, Dr Reginald (Fareham) Hastings, Stephen Percival, Ian
Benyon, W. Havers, Sir Michael Peyton, Rt Hon John
Berry, Hon Anthony Hawkins, Paul Price, David (Eastleigh)
Biffen, John Hayhoe, Barney Prior, Rt Hon James
Biggs-Davison, John Hicks, Robert Pym, Rt Hon Francis
Blaker, Peter Higgins, Terence L. Raison, Timothy
Boscawen, Hon Robert Hooson, Emlyn Rathbone, Tim
Bottomley, Peter Hordern, Peter Rawlinson, Rt Hon Sir Peter
Bowden, A. (Brighton, Kemptown) Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey Rees, Peter (Dover & Deal)
Boyson, Dr Rhodes (Brent) Howell, David (Guildford) Rees-Davies, W. R.
Braine, Sir Bernard Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk) Renton, Rt Hon Sir D. (Hunts)
Brittan, Leon Howells, Geraint (Cardigan) Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon
Brocklebank-Fowler, C. Hunt, David (Wirral) Ridley, Hon Nicholas
Brotherton, Michael Hunt, John Rifkind, Malcoim
Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) Hurd, Douglas Rippon, Rt Hon Geoffrey
Bryan, Sir Paul Hutchison, Michael Clark Roberts, Wyn (Conway)
Buchanan-Smith, Alick Irving, Charles (Cheltenham) Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks)
Buck, Antony James, David Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Burden, F. A. Jenkin, Rt Hn P. (Wanst'd & W'df'd) Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey)
Butler, Adam (Bosworth) Jessel, Toby Royle, Sir Anthony
Chalker, Mrs Lynda Johnson Smith, G. (E Grinstead) Sainsbury, Tim
Churchill, W. S. Jones, Arthur (Daventry) St. John-Stevas, Norman
Clark, William (Croydon S) Jopling, Michael Scott-Hopkins, James
Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) Kaberry, Sir Donald Shaw, Giles (Pudsey)
Clegg, Walter Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine Shaw, Michael (Scarborough)
Cockcroft, John Kershaw, Anthony Shelton, William (Streatham)
Cooke, Robert (Bristol W) Kimball, Marcus Shersby, Michael
Cope, John King, Evelyn (South Dorset) Silvester, Fred
Cordle, John H. King, Tom (Bridgwater) Sims, Roger
Cormack, Patrick Knight, Mrs Jill Sinclair, Sir George
Corrie, John Lane, David Skeet, T. H. H.
Costain, A. P. Langford-Holt, Sir John Smith, Cyril (Rochdale)
Crouch, David Latham, Michael (Melton) Smith, Dudley (Warwick)
Davies, Rt Hon J. (Knutsford) Lawrence, Ivan Spence, John
Dean, Paul (N Somerset) Lawson, Nigel Spicer, Jim (W Dorset)
Dodsworth, Geoffrey Lester, Jim (Beeston) Spicer, Michael (S Worcester)
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James Lloyd, Ian Stainton, Keith
Drayson, Burnaby Loveridge, John Stanley, John
du Cann, Rt Hon Edward Luce, Richard Steel, David (Roxburgh)
Durant, Tony McAdden, Sir Stephen Steen, Anthony (Wavertree)
Eden, Rt Hon Sir John McCrindle, Robert Stewart, Ian (Hitchin)
Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) Macfarlane, Neil Stokes, John
Eyre, Reginald MacGregor, John Storehouse, Rt Hon John
Fairbairn, Nicholas Macmillan, Rt Hon M. (Farnham) Stradling, Thomas J.
Fairgrieve, Russell McNair-Wilson, P. (New Forest) Taylor, R. (Croydon NW)
Farr, John Marshall, Michael (Arundel) Tebbit, Norman
Fell, Anthony Marten, Neil Thatcher, Rt Hon Margaret
Finsberg, Geoffrey Mates, Michael Thorpe, Rt Hon Jeremy (N Devon)
Fisher, Sir Nigel Mather, Carol Townsend, Cyril D.
Fletcher, Alex (Edinburgh N) Maude, Angus Tugendhat, Christopher
Fookes, Miss Janet Maudling, Rt Hon Reginald van Straubenzee, W. R.
Forman, Nigel Mawby, Ray Vaughan, Dr Gerard
Fowler, Norman (Sutton C'f'd) Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin Wainwright, Richard (Colne V)
Fraser, Rt Hon H. (Stafford & St) Mayhew, Patrick Wakeham, John
Freud, Clement Miller, Hal (Bromsgrove) Walker, Rt Hon P. (Worcester)
Fry, Peter Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) Walker-Smith, Rt Hon Sir Derek
Gardiner, George (Reigate) Molyneaux, James Walters, Dennis
Gardner, Edward (S Fylde) Monro, Hector Warren, Kenneth
Gilmour, Rt Hon Ian (Chesham) Montgomery, Fergus Weatherill, Bernard
Gilmour, Sir John (East Fife) More, Jasper (Ludlow) Wells, John
Goodhart, Philip Morgan, Geraint Whitelaw, Rt Hon William
Goodhew, Victor Morgan-Giles, Rear-Admiral Wiggin, Jerry
Goodlad, Alastair Morris, Michael (Northampton S) Winterton, Nicholas
Gow, Ian (Eastbourne) Morrison, Hon Peter (Chester) Young, Sir G. (Ealing, Acton)
Gower, Sir Raymond (Barry) Mudd, David Younger, Hon George
Grant, Anthony (Harrow C) Neave, Airey
Gray, Hamish Neubert, Michael TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Grieve, Percy Newton, Tony
Griffiths, Eldon Normanton, Tom Mr. Geoffrey Pattie and Mr. Nick Budgen.
Grimond, Rt Hon J. Nott, John
Allaun, Frank Fitch, Alan (Wigan) McMillan, Tom (Glasgow C)
Anderson, Donald Fitt, Gerard (Belfast W) McNamara, Kevin
Archer, Peter Flannery, Martin Madden, Max
Armstrong, Ernest Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) Magee, Bryan
Ashley, Jack Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) Mahon, Simon
Atkins, Ronald (Preston N) Foot, Rt Hon Michael Mallalieu, J. P. W.
Atkinson, Norman Forrester, John Marks, Kenneth
Bagier, Gordon A. T. Fowler, Gerald (The Wrekin) Marquand, David
Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) Fraser, John (Lambeth, N'w'd) Marshall, Dr. Edmund (Goole)
Barnett, Rt Hon Joel (Heywood) Freeson, Reginald Mason, Rt Hon Roy
Bates, Alf Garrett, John (Norwich S) Maynard, Miss Joan
Benn, Rt Hon Anthony Wedgwood Garrett, W. E. (Wallsend) Meacher, Michael
Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N) George, Bruce Mellish, Rt Hon Robert
Bidwell, Sydney Gilbert, Dr John Mendelson, John
Bishop, E. S. Ginsburg, David Mikardo, Ian
Blenkinsop, Arthur Golding, John Millan,. Bruce
Boardman, H. Gould, Bryan Miller, Dr M. S. (E Kilbride)
Booth, Rt Hon Albert Gourlay, Harry Miller, Mrs Millie (Ilford N)
Boothroyd, Miss Betty Graham, Ted Mitchell, R. C. (Soton, Itchen)
Bottomley, Rt Hon Arthur Grant, George (Morpeth) Molloy, William
Boyden, James (Bish Auck) Grant, John (Islington C) Moonman, Eric
Bradiey, Tom Grocott, Bruce Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe)
Bray, Or Jeremy Hamilton, James (Bothwell) Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw)
Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) Hamilton, W. W. (Central Fife) Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon)
Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W) Hardy, Peter Moyle, Roland
Brown, Ronald (Hackney S) Harper, Joseph Mulley, Rt Hon Frederick
Buchan, Norman Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) Murray, Rt Hon Ronald King
Buchanan, Richard Hart, Rt Hon Judith Newens, Stanley
Butler, Mrs Joyce (Wood Green) Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy Noble, Mike
Callaghan, Rt Hon J. (Cardiff SE) Hatton, Frank Oakes, Gordon
Callaghan, Jim (Middleton & P) Hayman, Mrs Helene Ogden, Eric
Campbell, Ian Healey, Rt Hon Denis O'Halloran, Michael
Canavan, Dennis Heffer, Eric S. Orbach, Maurice
Cant, R. B. Hooley, Frank Orme, Rt Hon Stanley
Carmichael, Neil Horam, John Ovenden, John
Carter, Ray Howell, Rt Hon Denis Owen, Dr David
Carter-Jones, Lewis Hoyle, Doug (Nelson) Padley, Walter
Cartwright, John Huckfield, Les Palmer, Arthur
Castle, Rt Hon Barbara Hughes, Rt Hon C. (Anglesey) Park, George
Cocks, Michael (Bristol S) Hughes, Mark (Durham) Parry, Robert
Cohen, Stanley Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) Pavitt, Laurie
Coleman, Donald Hughes, Roy (Newport) Peart, Rt Hon Fred
Colquhoun. Ms Maureen Hunter, Adam Pendry, Tom
Concannon, J. D. Irvine, Rt Hon Sir A. (Edge Hill) Perry, Ernest
Conlan, Bernard Irving, Rt Hon S. (Dartford) Prescott, John
Cook, Robin F. (Edin C) Jackson, Colin (Brighouse) Price, C. (Lewisham W)
Corbett, Robin Jackson, Miss Margaret (Lincoln) Price, William (Rugby)
Cox, Thomas (Tooting) Janner, Greville Radice, Giles
Craigen, J. M. (Maryhill) Jay, Rt Hon Douglas Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn (Leeds S)
Cronin, John Jeger, Mrs. Lena Richardson, Miss Jo
Crosland, Rt Hon Anthony Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) Roberts, Albert (Normanton)
Cryer, Bob John, Brynmor Roberts, Gwilym (Cannock)
Cunningham, G. (Islington S) Johnson, James (Hull West) Robertson, John (Paisley)
Cunningham, Dr J. (Whiteh) Johnson, Walter (Derby S) Robinson, Geoffrey
Dalyell, Tam Jones, Barry (East Flint) Roderick, Caerwyn
Davidson, Arthur Jones, Dan (Burnley) Rodgers, William (Stockton)
Davies, Bryan (Enfield N) Judd, Frank Rooker, J. W.
Davies, Denzil (Llanelli) Kaufman, Gerald Roper, John
Davies, Ifor (Gower) Kelley, Richard Ross, Rt Hon W. (Kilmarnock)
Davis, Clinton (Hackney C) Kerr, Russell Rowlands, Ted
Deakins, Eric Kilroy-Silk, Robert Sedgemore, Brian
Dean, Joseph (Leeds West) Kinnock, Neil Selby, Harry
de Freitas, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey Lambie, David Shaw, Arnold (Ilford South)
Dempsey, James Lamborn, Harry Sheldon, Robert (Ashton-u-Lyne)
Dormand, J. D. Lamond, James Shore, Rt Hon Peter
Douglas-Mann, Bruce Latham, Arthur (Paddington) Short, Rt Hon E. (Newcastle C)
Dunn, James A. Leadbitter, Ted Short, Mrs Renée (Wolv NE)
Dunnett, Jack Lee, John Silkin, Rt Hon S. C. (Dulwich)
Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth Lestor, Miss Joan (Eton & Slough) Sillars, James
Eadle, Alex Lewis, Arthur (Newham N) Silverman, Julius
Edge, Geoff Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) Skinner, Dennis
Edwards, Robert (Wolv SE) Lipton, Marcus Small, William
Ellis, John (Brigg & Scun) Litterick, Tom Smith, John (N Lanarkshire)
Ellis, Tom (Wrexham) Loyden, Eddie Snape, Peter
English, Michael Luard, Evan Spearing, Nigel
Ennals, David Lyons, Edward (Bradford W) Stallard, A. W.
Evans, Fred (Caerphilly) Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson Stewart, Rt Hon M. (Fulham)
Evans, Gwynfor (Carmarthen) McCartney, Hugh Stoddart, David
Evans, Ioan (Aberdare) McElhone, Frank Stott, Roger
Evans, John (Newton) MacFarquhar, Roderick Strang, Gavin
Ewing, Harry (Stirling) McGuire, Michael (Ince) Strauss, Rt Hn G. R.
Faulds, Andrew Mackenzie, Gregor Summerskill, Hon Dr Shirley
Fernyhough, Rt Hon E. Maclennan, Robert Swain, Thomas
Taylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton W) Walker, Terry (Kingswood) Williams, Alan Lee (Hornch'ch)
Thomas, Mike (Newcastle E) Ward, Michael Williams, Rt Hon Shirley (Hertford)
Thomas, Ron (Bristol NW) Watkins, David Williams, Sir Thomas
Thorne, Stan (Preston South) Watkinson, John Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton)
Tierney, Sydney Weetch, Ken Wilson, Rt Hon H. (Huyton)
Tinn, James Weitzman, David Wilson, William (Coventry SE)
Tomlinson, John Wellbeloved, James Wise, Mrs Audrey
Tomney, Frank White, Frank R. (Bury) Woodall, Alec
Torney, Tom White, James (Pollok) Woof, Robert
Tuck, Raphael Whitehead, Phillip Young, David (Bolton E)
Urwin, T. W. Whitlock, William
Varley, Rt Hon Eric G. Wigley, Dafydd TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne V) Willey, Rt Hon Frederick Mr. Ivor Clemitson and Mr. George Rodgers.
Walker, Harold (Doncaster) Williams, Alan (Swansea W)

Question accordingly negatived.