HC Deb 29 July 1976 vol 916 cc875-9
Mr. George Cunningham

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I have your assistance concerning the arrangements which might be made today in respect of three Labour Members who are seriously ill and who are travelling to the House and will be in the House this evening, although—[Interruption.] I have no intention, Mr. Speaker, of saying anything on this subject against barracking. Three Members of the House are desperately ill and will be in the House in that condition tonight in order to vote in the Division at 11 p.m. I understand—this has nothing to do with you, Mr. Speaker—that the usual arrangements for pairing seriously ill Members have not been afforded—

Mr. Speaker

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would be kind enough to come to the part of his question on which I can help and leave the general issue of pairing, which, as he rightly, says, is none of my business. We have a lot of other work before us.

Mr. George Cunningham

I am coming to that. [Interruption.] There are three Members who might die in this House tonight—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. Will hon. Members restrain themselves until the hon. Gentleman has indicated to me what I can do to help? I hope that the hon. Gentleman will come to his point.

Mr. George Cunningham

These three Members will be in the House tonight[HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] They will be in the House tonight because—[HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] They will be in the House—

Mr. Speaker

Order. May I appeal to hon. Members—[Interruption.] Order. Valuable time of the House is being wasted. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will bring his point of order to a conclusion by indicating to me what he thinks I can do.

Mr. Cunningham

The three hon. Members will be in House tonight because they have—[Interruption.] I spy Strangers in the Gallery. Right, if that is what you want—

Notice taken that Strangers were present. Whereupon MR. SPEAKER, pursuant to Standing Order No. 115 (Withdrawal of strangers from the House), put forthwith the Question, That strangers do withdraw.

The House proceeded to a Division—

Mr. Snape and Mr. Bates

were appointed Tellers for the Noes but, no Member being willing to act as Teller for the Ayes, MR. SPEAKER declared that the Noes had it.

Question accordingly negatived.

Mr. Speaker

Order. May I say to the hon. Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Cunningham) that I expect him to come to his point of order immediately.

Mr. George Cunningham

The position is that there are three Members who are seriously ill and who have been refused facilities, as a result of the decision of the Leader of the Opposition. Something serious may happen tonight as a result of that decision—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. I greatly deprecate points of order being used for argument.

Later—

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

I call Mr. Heifer. He has been trying to catch my eye for a long time.

Mr. Heifer

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I have always regarded you as one of the most humane and Christian Members of the House, although you are not of my persuasion.

I am sure that you will accept my point of order when you realise that a number of hon. Members, who could be put into very serious medical conditions, are being brought in today from very long distances.

What powers do you have, for instance, to convene an urgent meeting of Mr. Speaker's Conference, to deal with this problem? [HON. MEMBERS: "It is the Government's fault."] I do not want to lose my temper with hon. Members opposite, although I have come to the conclusion that some of them do not give a damn about the possibility of hon. Members losing their lives.

I raise this point of order because this problem has been with us for at least as long as I have been a Member of this House. What powers do you have, Mr. Speaker, to solve this problem in a humane and Christian manner in order to avoid hon. Members having to be brought here in a serious medical condition that could lead to loss of life? Some hon. Members do not seem concerned about that, but I would be worried whether the hon. Member concerned was a Conservative, a Liberal or from any other party.

Could you convene an emergency meeting of Mr. Speaker's Conference or take any other action to deal with this fantastically difficult, serious and inhumane situation which has arisen from the actions of the Iron Lady opposite?

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. Clearly there is nothing at all that I can do this day. Hon. Members who are coming here are now probably on their way.

Mr. George Cunningham

On the heads of the Opposition be it.

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member had a good innings a little while ago. I have listened to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heller) with great sympathy as, I am sure, have many hon. Members on both sides. [HON. MEMBERS: "Blame the Government Chief Whip."] Order. I shall now move on to business questions. I call Mrs. Thatcher.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. There is a limit to how long points of order can go on when there is a lot of business to be done.

Mr. Wigley

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I understand the Welsh temperament very well. I hope that the hon. Members who are seeking to catch my eye on points of order will do me and the House the favour of making them as brief as possible.

Mrs. Dunwoody

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Are you satisfied that there is adequate medical provision in the House to deal with people who are seriously sick and who are being brought in because of the gross insensitivity of the Conservative Party?

Mr. Speaker

I can understand points of order about our sick colleagues, but everyone knows that to go on attributing blame is not a point of order.

Mr. Pavitt

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I raise a small but practical point which I hope will be heard by the Leader of the House. There are from time to time extra health hazards in this House and we have very good coverage from the two hospitals concerned—St. Thomas's and Westminster. I am simply asking that whenever there is an actual health hazard there should be medical coverage here which does not come from other sources.

Mr. Speaker

I assure the House that I shall make the most thorough inquiries to see that adequate facilities to look after our sick colleagues are present.

Mr. Peyton

Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. Some very damaging things have been said—

Mr. George Cunningham

Quite right, too.

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman must stop interrupting from a sedentary position.

Mr. Peyton

There are therefore two very short points that I think that I should make. First, it is the responsibility of the Government Chief Whip whom he brings here and whom he does not on any occasion—

Mr. George Cunningham

The right hon. Lady will not pair.

Mr. Peyton

Secondly, it would be a very strange situation if, on a highly controversial Bill, my right hon. Friend the Opposition Chief Whip were to order any Member of his own party to stay out of the Lobby.

Mr. Speaker

I hope that it is clear that I was doing my utmost in no way to be involved in the arguments other than to express concern about our sick colleagues. I shall make inquiries about the matter.

Later—

Mr. Ridley

Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. Since there appear to be several hon. Members who are too sick to come to vote tonight, may I suggest that you invite the Leader of the House to postpone today's business which is controversial, so that we could proceed to discuss instead the National Heath Service (Vocational Training) Bill, which is also a starred Order of the Day, since there may be some inequality due to the lists of sickness tonight?

Mr. Speaker

I think that that completes that round.