OCCASIONAL PERMISSIONS (Hansard, 27 July 1976)

§ Mr. Harry Ewing
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bryant Godman Irvine)
With this it will be convenient to discuss Government Amendments Nos. 36 and 96.

§ Mr. Ewing
New Clause 2 revises the new subsection (11) added to Clause 35 in Committee. The new subsection allows a licensing board to grant an occasional licence to an individual representing a bona fide organisation. The clause amends and extends this provision by adjusting it to the language of the Bill. Amendment No. 36 removes subsection (11) of Clause 35 and Amendment No. 96 provides penalties for offences under New Clause 2.
Subsection (11) of Clause 35 was added in Committee after a Division on an Opposition amendment designed to give effect to a Clayson recommendation that a licensing board should have power to grant not more than four occasional licences a year to an individual representing a bona fide organisation authorising the sale of liquor at a particular function on a specified day. Clayson had in mind small voluntary organisations 485 with a social or sporting purpose whose concern was to operate a bar for their own enjoyment and incidental profit on a few brief occasions during the year. We accept that there is a case for such occasional authorities for organisations and do not wish to challenge the principle of subsection (11).
The purpose of the clause is to replace subsection (11) with a separate clause revised in line with the terms of the rest of the Bill. A separate clause seemed desirable because the remainder of Clause 35 deals with the grant of an occasional licence to someone who already holds a licence. Likewise, a separate name for the authority conferred seemed to be desirable and "occasional permission" is suggested.
Subsection (1) empowers a licensing board to grant an occasional permission to a person representing a voluntary organisation or a branch of a voluntary organisation authorising him to sell alcoholic liquor on a specified day and at a specified time in the course of catering for a function outside licensed premises.
Subsection (2) restricts the grant to not more than four occasional permissions a year for any one organisation or branch.
Subsection (3) empowers a licensing board to attach such conditions as it thinks fit, including a condition as to the type of liquor that may be sold, to an occasional permission, which shall be in writing, and makes breach of a condition an offence.
Subsection (4) applies the provisions of Clause 68, dealing with the protection of young persons, to the holder of an occasional permission and the premises for which it is granted, as if they were respectively a licence-holder and licensed premises.
Subsection (5) applies the provisions of Clause 85.
Subsection (6) requires the holder of an occasional permission to ensure that the provisions of the Bill relating to conduct of licensed premises are observed in the premises for which the permission is granted as if he were the holder of a public house licence.
Subsection (7) applies the procedural provisions in subsections (7) to (9) of Clause 35 for applications for occasional 486 licences to applications for occasional permissions.
Amendments Nos. 36 and 96 are consequential to New Clause 2. Their effect is to remove subsection (11) of Clause 35, which is to be replaced by New Clause 2, and to provide maximum penalties of £100 for the two offences created by the clause.
The maximum penalty for breach of a condition of an occasional permission is set at the same figure of £100 as the maximum penalty for breach of a condition of an occasional licence under Clause 35 and breach of a condition of grant of an extension of permitted hours under Clause 64. The maximum penalty for failing to ensure good conduct at the function for which the occasional permission has been granted has been set at the higher of the two maximum penalties—£100 and £50—provided for similar offences on the part of a licence holder. This emphasises the responsibility placed on the person seeking an occasional permission.

§ Mr. Hector Monro (Dumfries)
I am grateful to the Minister for this happy solution to an important debate on a small issue in Committee. We always accepted that our subsection (2) might not have been correctly drafted. The conclusion which the Minister reached on the subsection in favour of the new draft is much the best because it is correctly redrafted. We are grateful to the hon. Member for taking the trouble to do this. I welcome the addition to the Bill.

§ Mr. Teddy Taylor
I hope the Minister will answer a few questions on this important new clause because it involves a major change in principle. Up to the present it has been possible for organisations to hold a function and to get a licence only if they had an existing licence holder. That is now being done away with and the organisation itself can organise a bar and get the profit.
Obviously, as we have seen from the previous law on licensing there is a danger of escalation, and with this new clause as drafted there is a danger that it might be subject to abuse. The abuse I can see is the reference to an organisation or branch of an organisation. We debated a great deal in Committee the drinking habits of Dumfries Conservatives because Dumfries is one of the most powerful and 487 strong associations in the country. I am aware that it has a number of branches. The same would probably apply to Dumfries Rugby Club. I wonder whether it would be possible for each branch of each organisation to get four occasional permissions a year, even though the cash proceeds were going to the same local organisation. Is it possible, in an organisation having five or six branches, for each to hold such a function, to have an occasional licence and devote the proceeds to the funds of the organisation through the different branches?
The Secretary of State is well aware of the special problem which arose where each branch had special licences. It was a way round the situation. Is there any difficulty for an organisation in establishing a new branch every time it runs out of special permissions?
3.45 a.m.
The Minister may say that licensing boards will keep a close watch on the situation, but would it be possible for an organisation to behave as I have suggested and to have occasional permissions virtually every week? Will there be a limit on the number of occasional licences which can be obtained by any organisation in a year?
We shall be discussing later Government Amendment No. 87 which reduces from five years to three years the waiting time for existing "dry" or limitation areas. My attitude to intervening amendments will depend upon whether the Government intend to go ahead with that amendment. How would such an amendment affect the current situation? May we also be told how occasional licences apply to existing "dry" licences?
A similar amendment to No. 87 was tabled in Committee, but after I had put forward some strong arguments, my hon. Friends decided not to proceed with it.

§ Mr. Harry Ewing
I thank the hon. Member for Dumfries (Mr. Monro) for his kind words and for his acknowledgment that we have produced a clear solution to the problem that he raised in Committee.
I can tell the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Taylor) that occasional permissions are not related to licences. They will be given to people 488 who are not licence holders but are representatives of bona fide organisations. The number of permissions is limited to not more than four a year and the conditions are tightly drawn to ensure that the restrictions are complied with.

§ Mr. McCartney
Could my hon. Friend clarify the position still further? In talking about an organisation, do we mean organisations in the constituent sense in which the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Taylor) referred to them, irrespective of the number of constituent elements in the organisation?

§ Mr. Ewing
The wording was deliberately chosen to cover the branches of organisations.

§ Mr. Teddy Taylor
If a branch gets four permissions and needs another four, does it not just have to set up another branch? Will it not also be able to get yet another four by setting up a third branch?

§ Mr. Ewing
It will be for the board to decide whether conditions are being abused.