OCCASIONAL AND REGULAR EXTENSIONS OF PERMITTED HOURS (Hansard, 27 July 1976)

§ Mr. Canavan
I beg to move Amendment No. 60, in page 46, line 45, at end insert 'or a private function organised by an individual member or group of members of the club'. I wish to declare an interest in that I am a member of the Bannockburn Miners' Welfare Club, the only club mentioned in my entry in Who's Who. The amendment is designed to remove an anomaly in order to allow late functions to be held in private clubs as long as the functions are organised by an individual member or group of members of a club. It arose from a meeting that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary and I attended at the Bannockburn Miners' Welfare Club with representatives from that club and other clubs in Stirlingshire. The suggestion was put forward then and it was explained that there was a fault in this respect in the existing legislation and an omission in the Bill.
I can illustrate the case for the amendment with an example. Suppose that a member of a club had a daughter who was to be married and he decided to hold the wedding reception in the club. Suppose that he wanted a late licence so that the reception could continue until midnight. Under the existing legislation and under the Bill, the club would not be able to provide the late licence. It would have to bring in an external licensee to provide the bar facilities. From past experience and from what I gather from those who manage clubs, this causes considerable organisational and travel difficulties, and in many cases it leads to a poorer-quality service since often only canned or bottled beer, which is more expensive, is available, a situation which is made worse by the fact that draught beer may be available more 529 cheaply but for the prohibition on the use of the club facilities.
This is a reasonable proposal. The club secretary would still have to apply for the late licence and the concession would be confined to a club member or group of members. Also, the other guests attending the function would have to be signed into the club as guests in the usual way.

§ Mr. Harry Ewing
I have had a good, close look at the proposition, but I am bound in all honesty to say regretfully that I cannot accept it as put. We have done a great deal in the Bill for licensed clubs. We have provided that when a club holds a function related to its activities in premises other than the club—in other words, if it takes its annual dance to the town hall—it can take its licence with it. Under existing law, it would have to get an outside licensee to provide the bar facilities in those premises. We have therefore adhered to the principle established through the years that functions held in the club must be related to the club's activities before the club is allowed an extension.
We have examined all the possibilities In this regard and we have come to the conclusion that it would be better if, having extended the provision for clubs to take their licence with them when they hold club-related activities outside the club premises, we adhered to the principle in respect of functions inside the club premises as well. Extensions can be granted, but only on the basis of functions relating to a club's activities. To accept the amendment would extend the provisions in an unacceptable way. Therefore, regretfully, I have to resist the amendment.

§ Mr. Canavan
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his explanation but I am afraid that I find it unsatisfactory. It seems strange that under the Bill we shall give a club permission to take its licence to external premises and yet we shall not give permission to a member of a club, or a group of individual members, to hold a social activity such as a wedding or a funeral reception after the half-past two closing time. It appears rather strange that we should be discriminating in this way against ordinary members of clubs. I shall press to a Division what 530 I consider to be a reasonable amendment.

§ Mr. Tom McMillan
I support my hon. Friend the Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. Canavan). He makes a reasonable request. My daughter's engagement party took place in my club, as did my son's engagement party. The constitution of the club provided that it was shut on Mondays but that it could be opened on certain occasions. My hon. Friend makes a most reasonable request and I think that the House should adopt it.

§ Sir John Gilmour
If a club can take a licence out to other premises, presumably it is possible for at least 50 per cent. of the people attending such a function not to be club members but to be guests of members. It seems rather odd that the Minister cannot accede to this request.

§ Mr. Harry Ewing
I make it abundantly clear that there is no question of discrimination. The principle which has been applied over the years is that functions must be related to the activities of the club. It would be impossible to relate a wedding to the activities of the club.

§ Mr. Tom McMillan
rose—

§ Mr. Ewing
If my hon. Friend is about to suggest that the wedding is because of the activities of the club, I shall accept what he says.

§ Mr. McCartney
In this building we have the kirk downstairs. There are various things that take place down there, such as weddings, when those involved are related to a Member of this place or another place. That has nothing to do with what goes on inside the Chamber or in another place. What difference is there in principle between that situation and the situation to which my hon. Friend the Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. Canavan) has referred? Surely what my hon. Friend has requested is not unreasonable. It is a minimal proposal in relation to the totality of what is proposed for clubs under the Bill.

§ Mr. Ewing
I see all the difference in the world between marrying someone and filling someone with drink.

§ Mr. Lambie
That is dirty.

§ Mr. Ewing
My hon. Friend should be careful about making that sort of comment from a sedentary position.

§ Mr. Lambie
I said that it was dirty because we are back to the old statements by Ministers that they are anti-drink. All the efforts we have been making to try to liberalise the drink laws in the Bill are against the wishes of the Government. We are going over the battles that were fought in the first debate that took place on Sunday drinking. That is why I said it was dirty.

§ Mr. Harry Ewing
I am prepared to have a look at it and to see whether something can be done about it, but even if at the end of the day we reject the amendment that does not mean that anyone holding a wedding will be unable to have drink at it. It is not a question of the Government being anti-drink. If the Government were anti-drink, the Bill would never have been introduced in the first place. If my hon. Friend the Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. Canavan) cares to withdraw the amendment I shall have another look at it.

§ Mr. Canavan
rose—

§ Mr. McCartney
Will my hon. Friend give way? I take a serious objection to the comment that was made by the Minister, and my hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr. Lambie) also objects. The suggestion is that people who attend funerals, weddings and so on are essentially drunkards. My daughter was married only four weeks ago, and I take great objection to what has been said here.

§ Mr. Harry Ewing
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. If my hon. Friend is upset at what I said, I willingly and unreservedly withdraw my remarks.

§ Mr. Canavan
I am very grateful to the Minister for saying that he will consider my amendment further, but from past experience of such assurances from Ministers—this is not meant personally against my hon. Friend in any way—I feel that the best method of getting the Government to consider the amendment in detail is to have it written into the Bill at this stage, so that those characters along the corridor in the other place who sometimes interfere with our Socialist legislation can do some tidying up.
532 In this instance, I seriously think that a lot of ordinary working people who are members of clubs, and who are concerned about late licences for occasions such as weddings, funerals, christenings and so on, would like to see this very reasonable amendment put into effect by a Labour Government. I therefore wish to press the amendment to a Division.