HC Deb 06 July 1976 vol 914 cc1149-51
7. Mr. Cryer

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what are the average sizes of classes in primary and secondary schools, respectively, in 1976.

Mr. Mulley

Information about class sizes in maintained primary and secondary schools for 1976 is not yet available.

In January 1975 the average size of class as registered in maintained primary schools was 29.6; the average size of class as taught in secondary school was 22.7.

Mr. Cryer

Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is room for improvement in these figures and that the Government have a ripe opportunity, with the prospect of 15,000 unemployed teachers, to reduce average class sizes still further, especially in areas of deprivation like Yorkshire and Humberside? Does he agree that two sources of finance for this task would arise if the Government ensured that local authorities did not spend excessive amounts on junketing and subsidising former direct grant schools from the rates, as in Bradford, and set a good example by cutting the amount spent on defence?

Mr. Mulley

The House is not unfamiliar with my hon. Friend's favourite targets for cuts in public expenditure. A block grant is given to local authorities and it is for them to determine how to spend it. We should like to employ more teachers and reduce the size of classes, but in present economic circumstances the amount of progress that we can make in this direction is bound to be limited.

Dr. Boyson

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the decline in pupil-teacher ratios, of 25 per cent. in 25 years, has not been shown in class sizes? Could there be an investigation into the way in which these extra teachers have been used in administration, instead of at the chalk face in reducing class sizes?

Mr. Mulley

I have heard the hon. Gentleman's views about the chalk face before. It would be universally agreed in the education world—whose members are not always unanimous—that if I tried to go into schools to organise the running of classes and timetables there would be a united front against me. We must leave the working of schools to the head teachers and staffs. It may well make sense in some circumstances to have large classes for one subject, while teachers do remedial or other work in small groups in other parts of the school.