HC Deb 28 January 1976 vol 904 cc416-21
36. Mr. Marten

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the Tindemans Report.

39. Mr. Dykes

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when the Government intend to produce their preliminary response to the Report on European Union by Mr. Tindemans, the Prime Minister of Belgium, submitted recently to the European Council.

40. Mr. Hurd

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he proposes to discuss with his EEC colleagues the report prepared by Mr. Tindemans on the future of the Community.

Mr. James Callaghan

I welcome the realistic nature of Mr. Tindemans' broad approach of building on the Community as it now exists. The Report will be a useful stimulus to discussion about the development of the Community in the next few years.

I expect it to be discussed at the next meeting of the European Council at the beginning of April.

Mr. Marten

As the Foreign Secretary has already told us that the final decision on direct elections to the European Parliament, which are mentioned in the Tindemans Report, will rest with this Parliament, can he answer the question which the Prime Minister evaded at Question Time yesterday and tell us precisely what powers that Parliament will have? We now have the cart before the horse. We must know what these powers will be before we can reasonably discuss whether it is right to have direct elections. Will the right hon. Gentleman make an announcement about this subject and define the powers in the Green Paper—and I hope that it will be green and not white—that is to be published?

Mr. Callaghan

I thought that the Prime Minister answered the question completely yesterday, but I shall do my best to restate the position. The basis of the direct elections will be the existing powers of the European Assembly, no more and no less. If these powers are to be changed, it will be only with the consent of the member States. I prefer not to include a summary of the powers in the green White Paper or white Green Paper, because I want it to focus on issues of mechanics and the decisions that will need to be taken in relation to the elections and not to be side-tracked on to these other matters.

Mr. Hoyle

The British people have never been consulted about direct elections. They were certainly not consulted during the referendum. Does my right hon. Friend therefore agree that another referendum must be held before we have direct elections?

Mr. Callaghan

I do not agree with my hon. Friend and I do not think that the British people would welcome another referendum on this limited aspect of the issue. There is no doubt that the matter was put to the British people in the referendum. I can only repeat what the Prime Minister said. If those who were against continued membership of the EEC did not raise this matter in the referendum campaign, they were neglecting their duty and hon. Members who neglected to do their duty at that time should not now complain to me.

Mr. Dykes

What specific steps do the Government propose to take in the foreseeable future to avoid the terrifying prospect for this country, to which Mr. Tindemans alluded indirectly, that we shall be not only members of the lower tier of the Community in economic terms, but its poorest country on a per capita basis?

Mr. Callaghan

I do not accept the hon. Member's hypothesis. Whether there is to be a two-tier system will have to be discussed at the European Council and will require the consent of all member States before being introduced. I expressed my personal views in a speech in Hamburg last week and I think the debate should go on. I have to speak with some caution, because the Cabinet have not yet considered the matter, but I do not believe that a two-tier system would be to the benefit of the Community or of this country.

Mr. R. C. Mitchell

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Tindemans Report covers a much wider range of topics than just direct elections? Will he consult the Leader of the House about having an early debate on the Report?

Mr. Callaghan

I agree with my hon. Friend that direct elections play a very small part in the Report, which covers a wide area. I shall convey my hon. Friend's request to the Lord President. The only undertaking I can give today—because I have already consulted my right hon. Friend on this subject—is that we shall have a debate on direct elections once the White Paper has been published and consultations are taking place.

Mr. Hurd

Do not recent events in Portugal, Angola and Lebanon under- score one of Mr. Tindemans' main points—that we shall not be able to defend British and European interests effectively unless we have a much more closely concerted foreign policy? Could not Britain play a great part in bringing this about, and what will the Foreign Secretary do to help?

Mr. Callaghan

We are playing a vigorous part in this matter. This is one area in which I feel very much at ease in moving. British experience, history and background enable us to take a lead in such matters. We have done so and shall continue to do so. We tried to do so over Angola, though we did not meet with complete success. There will always be failures as well as successes.

Mr. Heffer

Is my right hon. Friend aware that at this morning's meeting of the Labour Party National Executive Committee there was a unanimous decision that before the Government took a final decision on direct elections they should make sure that the Labour Party was fully consulted at a conference and had had an opportunity to consider the implications of such elections for this country?

Mr. Callaghan

It will be for the party to decide whether it wants to call a conference on the matter. As far as the Government are concerned, I have already begun consultations with the leaders of all parliamentary parties and have written to them on the subject. At a later stage, it will be for the Home Secretary to follow the normal course in these matters and to call together party organisations, such as Transport House and Conservative Central Office, to work out detailed proposals.

Mr. David Steel

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether we are to have a White or a Green Paper, or is there no longer any difference between the two? Can he say why so many hon. Members are anxious that the British people be consulted about everything to do with Europe except who represents them there?

Mr. Callaghan

I am a little in the dark about the colour of the proposed Paper myself. As I plan it at the moment, the first part will contain decisions which have to be reached at Community level, such as the total number of members of the Assembly and their distribution among member States. That part of the Paper would be white. But there would also be a number of questions which I hope to identify in the second part of the Paper dealing with the electoral arrangements here. This part would be raising questions, such as dual mandate, and not answering them. I am afraid that it will be a bit of a hybrid beast.

Sir D. Walker-Smith

Will the Government give their support to Mr. Tindemans' recommendation that the Council should instruct the institutions to initiate action to evolve procedures for the protection of fundamental political, economic and social rights within the Community?

Mr. Callaghan

I note what the right hon. and learned Gentleman has said. This matter will certainly be considered before we go to the European Summit.

Mr. Spearing

One of the conclusions of this Report, which my right hon. Friend admits is important yet which we are not to debate, is that member States should submit a greater part of their external relations and problems to a common policy. Does my right hon. Friend go as far as that and, if not, will he tell Mr. Tindemans so at their next meeting?

Mr. Callaghan

I did not say that we would not have a debate. I am not in a position to say whether a debate will take place, because I have not yet consulted my right hon. Friend the Lord President. My experience leaves me in no doubt that the more European countries can work together on a common foreign policy, the stronger will be our influence in the world. As I wish to see British influence strengthened, I shall do my best to ensure that the Community itself works in that way.

Mr. Amery

The Foreign Secretary referred to his initiatives in the EEC over Angola. Does he agree that to call for a coalition Government and for the withdrawal of all foreign forces is like trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted? Will he get in touch with our EEC partners and our NATO allies to see what steps we can take to prevent the Sovietisation of Angola and the disastrous consequences which would follow for southern and central Africa?

Mr. Callaghan

The right hon. Gentleman is talking of a policy enunciated when the balance of forces in Angola was different from what it is today, and he is seeking to apply that policy to the current situation. At the time the call made a lot of sense. It it had been accepted then, it would have been much to the benefit of the people of Angola. I said that I thought that a Government of national reconciliation was now required. In such a Government the MPLA would play a prominent, maybe a leading part. If we are looking for a solution to this problem and if there is to be peace in Angola, the other very substantial element of the people in that country must be involved. I do not believe that in the short run external influence will be extruded from Angola. However, knowing the African personality, I believe that in the long run it will be.