§
Amendments made: No. 68, in page 14, line 15, leave out 'or 8' and insert
'8, (contributions towards acts of terrorism) or (information about acts of terrorism)'.
No. 69, in line 16, after '8', insert
'(contributions towards acts of terrorism) or (information about acts of terrorism)'.
No. 70, in line 22, leave out or '8' and insert
'8, (contribution towards acts of terrorism) or (information about acts of terrorism)'.
No. 71, in page 16, line 15 at end add—
§ 'Scheduled offences
8. Offences under sections 8, (contributions towards acts of terrorism) and (information about acts of terrorism) of this Act shall be scheduled offences for the purposes of the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1973; and accordingly in Part I of Schedule 4 to that Act there shall be inserted after the paragraph 13 inserted there by paragraph 7 of Schedule 2 to the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) (Amendment) Act 1975 the following paragraph:—
§ "Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1976
§
13A. Offences under the following provisions of the Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1976—
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
§ 11.47 p.m.
§ Mr. MikardoI shall not at this hour detain the House long, but I am bound to say that quite a small number of hon. Members voted against the Bill on Second Reading. It would have taken only a minuscule concession on the part of the Government to the views which we then expressed to give us an excuse for not voting against the Bill on Third Reading. We should have been happy to find such an excuse.
However, throughout the Committee stage and the Report stage there has not been a scintilla of a concession towards the views which I and my hon. Friends expressed during Second Reading and which led us to vote against the Bill. There was certainly not a concession during the Committee stage because, by a brilliant piece of legerdemain on the part of the Selection Committee, no hon. Member who voted against the Second Reading was put on to the Committee, so there was not likely to be much change there.
Today we waited with an open mind to see whether there would be something—the smallest crust of bread—which would give us the opportunity to change our view. We have not had it.
§ 11.49 p.m.
§ Mr. AlisonThe hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Mr. Mikardo) has given the House the opportunity to have a short debate on Third Reading.
I wonder whether the Minister would kindly turn her attention, if not necessarily now, between now and the transmission of the Bill to another place, to a point to which I drew the Home Secretary's attention informally earlier this evening. I am referring to the apparent contradiction between the earlier part of Clause 8, which makes it an offence for anyone served with an exclusion order to stay in the country or not to fulfil it, and the right apparently given to such a person under Clause 6 to delay for 96 hours. There seems to be a serious contradiction.
591 Clause 8 says,
If—(a) a person subject to an exclusion order fails to comply with the order at a time after he has been served with notice of the making of the orderit is an offence.However, Clause 6 makes it at the same time possible for him to stay here for 96 hours to fulfil certain opportunities for appeal.
I have put the matter to the Home Secretary. I understand that he was to take advice about it. There seems to be some serious misdrafting. I do not expect the hon. Lady, unless she has received a note from her advisers, to answer the point now, but I hope that she will reassure us that the matter will be considered carefully between now and the passage in another place to ensure that at least there is not a contradiction.
§ 11.50 p.m.
§ Mr. George CunninghamThere is one detailed consequence of the form in which we have amended the Bill today. When we passed new Clause 3, the one relating to the withholding of information about terrorist offences, the question arose whether it would apply in Northern Ireland. The Minister said that it would not. I ask hon. Members to ask themselves the question, who says so?
The difference between clauses which apply in Northern Ireland and those which do not is defined in Clause 16(2):
Part I of this Act shall not extend to Northern Ireland.So the question whether new Clause 3 will apply or not in Northern Ireland will depend on whether or not it is put in Part I. But because it is a new clause and not an amendment to an existing clause, nowhere is booked for it, whether in Part I or anywhere else.I accept that those who cobble the thing together afterwards have plenty of evidence in the amendments which we have passed to show that the new clause
§ should go outside Part I, but the House has not decided that. If anyone wanted to stop it applying to Northern Ireland, I do not know how he would procedurally go about it.
This curious situation has arisen because of the way in which Clause 16(2) is drafted. Instead of specifying the clauses which will not apply to Northern Ireland, in which case an amendent could have been made to add a reference to the new clause, the draftsman has said that Part I shall not extend to Northern Ireland. I ask the Home Secretary to bring this point to the attention of parliamentary draftsmen so that they do not use that drafting technique in future. It prejudges a decision of the House which the House has not taken.
§ 11.52 p.m.
§ Mr. Roy JenkinsI do not wish to detain the House for long, but it would be discourteous if I did not say that I will note carefully the point made by the hon. Member for Barkston Ash (Mr. Alison) about Clause 8, which relates also to some extent to Clause 7. I will also take note of the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Cunningham). Not only in fact but in effect, in my undertaking, we carried the principle of new Clause 3. We shall look not only at the other points which were raised but also at the question where it could best go into the Bill and whether the Lords would wish to change that.
I think that our proceedings have made it worth while to re-legislate on this matter in somewhat less hurried circumstances than those of a year ago. I thank hon. Members and my hon. Friends for the constructive and good-tempered way in which the debate has been conducted almost throughout.
§ Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 118, Noes 11.
593| Division No. 47.] | AYES | [11.53 p.m. |
| Alison, Michael | Bishop, E. S. | Chalker, Mrs Lynda |
| Archer, Peter | Blenkinsop, Arthur | Cocks, Michael (Bristol S) |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Bradford, Rev Robert | Cook, Robin F. (Edin C) |
| Ashton, Joe | Bray, Dr Jeremy | Crawshaw, Richard |
| Bain, Mrs Margaret | Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) | Cryer, Bob |
| Bates, Alf | Buchan, Norman | Cunningham, G. (Islington S) |
| Beith, A. J. | Carson, John | Deakins, Eric |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Cartwright, John | Dempsey, James |
| Doig, Peter | McCartney, Hugh | Rowlands, Ted |
| Dormand, J. D. | MacCormick, Iain | Shepherd, Colin |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | McCusker, H. | Small, William |
| Dunn, James A. | McElhone, Frank | Smith, Cyril (Rochdale) |
| Eadie, Alex | McGuire, Michael (Ince) | Smith, John (N Lanarkshire) |
| Ellis, John (Brigg & Scun) | Mackenzie, Gregor | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Ellis, Tom (Wrexham) | Mackintosh, John P. | Steel, David (Roxburgh) |
| Evans, Ioan (Aberdare) | McNair-Wilson, P. (New Forest) | Stewart, Rt Hon M. (Fulham) |
| Evans, John (Newton) | Madden, Max | Stradling Thomas, J. |
| Ewing, Harry (Stirling) | Mahon, Simon | Summerskill, Hon Dr Shirley |
| Eyre, Reginald | Marks, Kenneth | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton W) |
| Fernyhough, Rt Hn E. | Marshall, Dr Edmund (Goole) | Thorpe, Rt Hon Jeremy (N Devon) |
| George, Bruce | Millen, Bruce | Tierney, Sydney |
| Golding, John | Mitchell, R. C. (Soton, Itchen) | Tinn, James |
| Graham, Ted | Molyneaux, James | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne V) |
| Hamilton, James (Bothwell) | Monro, Hector | Walker, Terry (Kingswood) |
| Harper, Joseph | Moyle, Roland | Ward, Michael |
| Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) | Murray, Rt Hon Ronald King | Watt, Hamish |
| Henderson, Douglas | Newens, Stanley | Welsh, Andrew |
| Howells, Geraint (Cardigan) | Noble, Mike | White, Frank R. (Bury) |
| Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Oakes, Gordon | Whitelaw, Rt Hon William |
| Hunter, Adam | Park, George | Whitlock, William |
| Jackson, Miss Margaret (Lincoln) | Penhaligon, David | Wilson, Gordon (Dundee E) |
| Jenkins, Rt Hon Roy (Stechford) | Powell, Rt Hon J. Enoch | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Johnson, James (Hull West) | Rathbone, Tim | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Judd, Frank | Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn (Leeds S) | Woodall, Alec |
| Kilfedder, James | Reld, George | Woof, Robert |
| Knight, Mrs Jill | Roderick, Caerwyn | Wrigglesworth, Ian |
| Lamond, James | Rodgers, George (Cherley) | |
| Le Marchant, Spencer | Rooker, J. W. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Lester, Jim (Beeston) | Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight) | Mr. David Stoddart and |
| Lestor, Miss Joan (Eton & Slough) | Ross, Rt Hon W. (Kilmarnock) | Mr. Laurie Pavitt. |
| Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | Ross, William (Londonderry) | |
| NOES | ||
| Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N) | Latham, Arthur (Paddington) | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Litterick, Tom | |
| Canavan, Dennis | Mikardo, Ian | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Evans, Gwynfor (Carmarthen) | Parry, Robert | Mr. Ron Thomas and |
| Flannery, Martin | Skinner, Dennis | Mr. Stan Thorne. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Bill read the Third time and passed.