HC Deb 27 January 1976 vol 904 cc228-30
6. Mr. MacGregor

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what has been the increase in annual expenditure on supplementary benefits from 1961–62 to the latest available date.

Mr. O'Malley

Expenditure increased from £168 million in 1961–62 to an estimated £1,125 million in the calendar year 1975.

Mr. MacGregor

Is the right hon. hon. Gentleman aware that in a recent article quoting similar figures the Chairman of the Supplementary Benefits Commission has referred to the fact that the climate in which social security benefits are being considered in the country at large is changing and that often poor hardworking people are making the most complaints about it? It is causing great resentment among them that, because benefits are overtaking our very low tax thresholds, there is often little incentive to be in work and that frequently it is better to be out of work. In view of the remarks made earlier today about tax thresholds, will he ask the Secretary of State to consider setting up a working party with the Chancellor of the Exchequer urgently to sort out this whole confusing, often nonsensical and potentially damaging interaction between the tax systems and benefits?

Mr. O'Malley

I have read the article by Professor Donnison to which the hon. Gentleman refers and I agree with its contents. I will bring the hon. Gentleman's second observation to the attention of the Chancellor.

Mrs. Hayman

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is an area of great need for further expenditure on supplementary benefits, that of one-parent families? Does he agree that many such families dependent on supplementary benefit have been disappointed about the child interim benefit? Having done something for those families not dependent on supplementary benefit, will he now look as a matter of urgency at the two main recommendations that the Finer Committee made for lone parents on supplementary benefit—a shorter qualifying time for the long-term addition and a special cash addition for lone parents and their children?

Mr. O'Malley

The Secretary of State has made clear the Government's position on what my hon. Friend described as the principal recommendation of the Finer Committee which was, of course, for a means-tested benefit. We have made clear our objections to any extension of the principle of means testing. My hon. Friend may be aware that between 1961 and 1975 the number of one-parent families helped through the supplementary benefit system increased from 76,000 to 245,000. However, I will certainly consider any other outstanding matters that my hon. Friend has raised.

10. Mr. Alan Clark

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if she is satisfied with the criteria applied to the distribution of supplementary benefit.

Mr. O'Malley

The present criteria for entitlement to supplementary benefit have been operated under successive Governments. I am always willing to consider constructive suggestions for improvements to the system.

Mr. Clark

Does the Minister realise that there is a practice among certain types of claimant of drawing supplementary benefit to meet some or all of the costs of their rent and then either keeping the money or spending it on themselves? Does he not agree that this is a fraud on the Exchequer, a fraud on all those who work and pay rent out of their own resources, and a fraud on the landlord, and yet it is not legally culpable? What steps is the Minister taking to remedy this situation?

Mr. O'Malley

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me prior notice of his supplementary question with the sting in the tail—as it was called in the Sunday Independent of 18th January. It was very useful to me. Seriously, however, I think that the most sensible way to deal with this problem is through the powers, which the Supplementary Benefit Commission already has, whereby in cases of persistent default in rent payment arrangements can be made for the rent to be paid directly by the Commission's officers either to the local authority or to the landlord. That is the most sensible way of dealing with the problem.