HC Deb 27 January 1976 vol 904 cc242-4
Q2. Mr. Trotter

asked the Prime Minister when he next intends to visit Portsmouth.

The Prime Minister

I have at present no plans to do so, Sir.

Mr. Trotter

Is the Prime Minister aware from his visits to naval and other military bases of the ever-increasing Russian military strength? Does he realise that the Russian Socialists are realistic and appreciate not only military strength but willpower? Although they undoubtedly wish to see a Socialist Government here, they will respect Britain more if we are led by an iron lady rather than by a plasticine man.

The Prime Minister

The Soviet Union, which is composed of realists, pays less attention to the odd speech here or there than it pays to the record of Her Majestys' Government's support of NATO and our determination to maintain its strength.

Mr. Frank Allaun

Is the Prime Minister aware of the even greater military strength of the United States? Do not both great Powers possess the ability to overkill? Is there any sense in the United Kingdom's indulging further in this nonsense, because there is no defence against nuclear weapons?

The Prime Minister

Anybody in my position must be fully aware of the great contribution made by the United States, together with other European countries, to NATO. The balance of military power and of ability in nuclear matters—the balance of terror, as my hon. Friend might prefer to put it—has been significant in achieving detente between the two super blocs, and therefore between NATO and the Warsaw Pact countries. Because of this situation, the achievements of Helsinki, which I believe to have been real, were possible, although not every Conservative Member welcomes that.

Mrs. Thatcher

In view of the hysterical outburst from Moscow and the somewhat trivial response of the Secretary of State for Defence to the factual and balanced speeches made by the right hon. Gentleman the Foreign Secretary and myself, will the Prime Minister speak up for the effective defence of Britain and for our way of life against those who permit freedom of neither speech nor travel and who have to build a wall to keep their people in?

The Prime Minister

I agree with the right hon. Lady about the outbursts from Moscow. I thought the best comments on the whole business came from my noble Friend the Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, who told the Russians that this was a country of free speech and that anybody was free to make speeches—including my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence and those Russians who wished to enter the argument. It was quite wrong of the right hon. Lady to refer to any comparison between her speech and that made by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary in relation to what was said by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence, who spoke from real knowledge of these matters. The right hon. Lady's analysis contained a considerable number of long accepted truths which she has just discovered, but it contained nothing new. The difference between the right hon. Lady and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence is that he has been dealing with these matters from great knowledge, whereas the right hon. Lady has suddenly began to make speeches about them.

Mrs. Thatcher

If the Prime Minister accepts the analysis and accepts that, if our defence is to be effective, it must bear some relation to the forces ranged against us, will he say "No" to further defence cuts?

The Prime Minister

We have a responsibility, as had the Conservative Government of which the right hon. Lady was a member, in making our contribution to NATO. We are making a full contribution and NATO is extremely satisfied with our contribution. I have made clear in the House that any review of defence expenditure will not affect the effectiveness of that contribution. We have said this to our NATO allies. I am sure that the right hon. Lady will be satisfied with the figures when they are published. I agree with the right hon. Lady's comments about the Berlin wall. I recall a visit made by 40 hon. Members in a Labour Party mission to Berlin many years ago. Some of my hon. Friends who were involved in that visit are still in the House and they will remember the line taken by that mission and its leader in 1962.