TUC (Hansard, 22 January 1976)

§ The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. and learned Friend to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) on 25th November, Sir.

§ Mr. Greville Janner
When my right hon. Friend next meets the TUC, will he congratulate those trades unions and their officials who contribute greatly to the good industrial relations that exist in the bulk of our industry and who receive so little recognition? Does he agree that while among some of the industries and plants in economic difficulty industrial relations are bad, there are many others, such as the Decca plant in my constituency, where they are very good indeed and that these plants deserve congratulation and special help?

§ The Prime Minister
I believe that my hon. and learned Friend's comments are absolutely justified. It would be good if occasionally, for example, the Opposition were to pay tribute to the great improvements achieved in industrial rela- 1536 tions during the past two years. I am sure that they are highly gratified, though very silent, that the number of man-days lost last year through industrial stoppages was the lowest in any year since 1968—I note their cheers. I am sorry if these facts make hon. Gentlemen opposite unhappy. They destroy their whole argument. The loss of man-days through disputes last year showed a fall of 60 per cent. compared with 1974—almost all in the first two months—and a fall of 17 per cent. compared with their record in 1973. The number of man-days lost through disputes, which is the pabulum of the Opposition's whole publicity, has fallen by 75 per cent. compared with their record in 1972. Why cannot they have the guts to acknowledge those facts?

§ Mr. Thorpe
Does the Prime Minister agree that when he meets the TUC, it is highly likely that the problem of the current level of unemployment will be raised? We welcome the grant of £70 million to the Manpower Commission to create 15,000 new jobs. However, will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to look at the Canadian experience, where a job creation scheme under a local initiative programme for 150 million dollars has already created 100,000 new jobs, and consider whether we can benefit from that experience?
Finally, as there are 40,000 additional school leavers on the register, may I ask whether he is satisfied that the recruitment subsidy scheme is as successful as he hoped it would be?

§ The Prime Minister
I do not not quite accept the right hon. Gentleman's figures. It is certainly the case that in every meeting we have with the TUC we discuss these important questions. I cannot accept what the right hon. Gentleman said about comparability with Canada, nor, indeed, his figures for this country. He will be aware that for a fairly limited increase in expenditure—for example, on other job creation schemes apart from those he mentioned and, of course, regeneration schemes related to wool textile machinery and so on—there has been quite a marked response.
I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman is not suggesting—and I do not think that the Conservative Party is suggesting—a major programme of Keynesian-type reflation, which would not 1537 quickly reduce the numbers of unemployed, but could endanger the very significant progress made recently in the attack on cost inflation and rising prices.

§ Mr. Marten
Does the Prime Minister recall that a few months ago I asked him whether he would consider with the Trades Union Congress the proposition that major pay settlements should be arrived at on one day, certainly in the public sector? Has the Prime Minister discussed this proposition with the TUC? If so, what was the TUC's attitude to it as a method of overcoming leapfrogging?

§ The Prime Minister
I have not discussed it with the TUC. It is on all grounds of good theory a consummation devoutly to be wished, but it raises practical difficulties concerning the dates on which there have been previous settlements in individual industries. The hon. Member will know, for example, that in the proposals approved by the House in July or August last—the observance of which has been 100 per cent.—there was a very important clause requiring a whole year to go by before further increases were made. If there were now to be—however desirable in theory—a telescoping of the dates into a single date, it would make it very difficult to enforce the agreement by the TUC, the CBI and the Government.