HC Deb 14 January 1976 vol 903 cc382-4
28. Mr. Fry

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment which passenger transport authorities are at present running their services at a break-even point; and which passenger transport authorities are in a financial deficit.

Mr. Marks

None of the passenger transport executives is breaking even. All receive grant from their passenger transport authorities—in England, the metropolitan county councils.

Mr. Fry

With the present set-up, does not the Minister agree that the future is very bleak indeed? There will be either much higher fares, and therefore probably fewer passengers, or a much higher demand for subsidies. Does not this situation clearly indicate the need for an urgent statement of Government policy on the future of urban transportation?

Mr. Marks

I accept the need for an early statement, but one which should be comprehensive. I take note of the great difficulties of metropolitan counties and their PTAs. The grant for bus revenue support expenditure next year will be £20 million, as compared with £36 million for the current year, whereas grants to the non-metropolitan counties are showing an increase.

Mr. Bowden

Will the Minister accept that, although road transport passengers are facing problems, rail commuters are near breaking point? Will he accept that some in my constituency have to pay between £8 and £10 a week to get to work? For how long can they go on facing this sort of burden? What will he do to see that it does not increase?

Mr. Marks

We face demands from the Opposition side of the House for considerable cuts in public expenditure. Whether the hon. Gentleman would include subsidies to commuters is perhaps a different matter. In the transport review we shall have to consider the whole of passenger transport, including the commuters in the South-East, and we shall have to ask ourselves whether taxpayers as a whole should subsidise people who travel considerable distances to work.

Mr. Leadbitter

I think that the Minister will agree that the Chairman of British Rail has recently made some serious public statements about the condition of British Rail and his concern about the lack of policy. It is certainly a negative attitude by the chairman that he wants the general public to decide policy. Having accepted that there is a need for a comprehensive policy statement, will the Minister take note that the House and the country, and certainly the Chairman of British Rail, are anxious to have an early statement in the House, and will he indicate when that statement is likely to be made?

Mr. Marks

I think that my right hon. Friend has already said that he expects consultations and a statement within two months or so. I am sure that we can appreciate the difficulties of the Chairman of British Rail. There has been no major review of transport—and that includes road and rail—for the past seven years. An early statement is desirable, but it is essential that we get it right and consult all interests, including the trade unions, before we make it.