National Bus Company (Hansard, 25 February 1976)

§ 20. Mr. Michael Spicer
asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what are his estimates of the losses to be made by the National Bus Company for the year 1975–76.

§ Dr. Gilbert
I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Gow) on 19th February 1976.—[Vol. 905. c. 795–6.]

§ Mr. Spicer
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that that answer showed that a heavy loss was about to be made this year, heavier than last year? Would the hon. Gentleman care to speculate why it is that the bus industry, which is now in heavy deficit, should have been self-sufficient until the passing of the 1968 Transport Act, which created a virtual State monopoly? Do not the Government think it time that we allowed the private operators a greate rôle and made it easier for them to re-enter the business?

§ Dr. Gilbert
It ought to be set on the record that the National Bus Company's target of breaking even has been met in four out of the six years of the company's existence. It is open to anyone to apply for a licence. The traffic commissioners judge such applications on statutory criteria. The more common complaint that I hear is not that private operators have difficulty in getting licences but that they cream away the profitable traffic, making it difficult for the National Bus Company to meet its obligation to break even.

§ Mr. Les Huckfield
Will my hon. Friend accept that, apart from London and the South-East, where the situation is more rail-dominated, there is throughout the country far more concern about the level of bus fares than there is about the level of rail fares? Will he accept that the Family Expenditure Survey showed that the average level of income of bus travellers was lower than that of rail travellers? Is he aware that consequently there is a good case for continuing the current level of bus revenue support? Will my hon. Friend also accept that the solution to many of these problems is not to relax the licensing laws for buses?

§ Dr. Gilbert
I agree with my hon. Friend that outside of London and the South-East the future of bus services is probably giving greater cause for public concern than is the future of the rail service. It is in that context that my hon. Friend should bear in mind that the Government have raised bus subsidies to three times their level in 1973–74 when the Conservatives were in power. My hon. Friend will have seen in the White Paper on public expenditure that the Government have not finally decided how much should be spent under each of the transport heads. This is always open to review and to representations of the sort my hon. Friend has made, which will no doubt be urged upon us—and borne in mind—during the consultative period.

§ Mr. Gow
Does the hon. Gentleman expect that the loss made by the National Bus Company in the next financial year will be greater or smaller than the loss estimated for the current financial year?

§ Dr. Gilbert
It is impossible to say.