British Railways (Hansard, 25 February 1976)

§ 8. Mr. Crawford
asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what further meetings he plans to hold with the Chairman of British Rail.

§ 23. Mr. Cryer
asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he next 358 expects to meet the Chairman of British Rail.

§ Dr. Gilbert
I shall be meeting the chairman when the need arises.

§ Mr. Crawford
When the hon. Gentleman sees the Chairman of British Rail, will he say to him that what is needed in Scotland is the immediate double-tracking of the Perth-Inverness railway line, which is now carrying double the number of passengers that it was carrying in 1963, before it was made a single track? Will he also press for the immediate electrification of the rapid transit systems in Tayside, Edinburgh and Aberdeen? Will he also ask for a clear and unequivocal statement that there will be no cut-backs and rationalisation in the railway lines north of Glasgow and Edinburgh? Will the Minister accept that we on the SNP Benches will brook no flannelling and equivocation on this issue?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. This is a time not for debate but for asking questions.

§ Dr. Gilbert
I am not sure that I should comment on the catalogue of additional public expenditure in which the hon. Gentleman would like us to engage. I am considering the scheme for the upgrading of the Perth-Inverness line in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland and in the light of the decisions on public expenditure announced on 19th February.

§ Mr. Cryer rose
—

§ Mr. Bagier rose
—

§ Mr. Speaker
Mr. Bagier.

§ Mr. Bagier
Will my hon. Friend—

§ Mr. Cryer
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I have noticed the hon. Member for Keighley (Mr. Cryer) and I shall call him. I hope that he will forgive my temporary absent-mindedness.

§ Mr. Bagier
Will my hon. Friend the Minister for Transport, when he meets Sir Richard Marsh, ask him whether he believes his fare policy is in accordance with the Government's policy? Even more important, will my hon. Friend ask him whether the Government's policy at 359 the moment is seriously affecting the transfer of freight from road to rail?

§ Dr. Gilbert
A great many questions about the distribution of freight traffic as between road and rail will be covered in the consultative document. I ask my hon. Friend to be patient for a little longer.
As for British Rail's fares policy, British Rail has to deal with a situation in which the deficit has been increasing and at some time a halt has to be called. British Rail has assured us that any reduction in fares would not produce anything other than an increase in the deficit.

§ Mr. Raison
Will the Minister confirm that it is the Government's policy to make the railways less of a social service and more a body which pays its way through fares? Will he also repeat to the House what his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State told hon. Members at a Labour Party meeting upstairs yesterday, that there is a great need for internal economies in the running and manning of British Rail?

§ Dr. Gilbert
There is no dispute whatever that there is a need for further economies in the internal manning and running of British Rail. I pay tribute to the statesmanship of the leaders of the railway unions when they have seen great reductions in manpower over many years. However, it is difficult to take seriously comments from Members of the Opposition about problems of commuter fares when the hon. Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Raison) only a week ago said that the Government were not taking the public expenditure problem seriously and the subsidy area could have yielded much more.

§ Mr. Cryer
Mr. Speaker, I am most grateful to you for calling me. Will my hon. Friend agree that one saving that could be effected by British Rail is in the use of private saloons, which are maintained at some expense, in which the management of British Rail go out and inspect their empire? Will not the Minister agree that that practice is outdated and that the management should ride on the somewhat tatty diesel multiple units which many of their customers have to use? Will he not also agree that the Chairman of British Rail should initiate discussions with the trade unions about industrial democracy? Is not that the 360 sort of policy that the Labour Government should initiate?

§ Dr. Gilbert
The subject of industrial democracy is being given close attention, as my hon. Friend will know, not only by British Rail, but by all nationalised industries.
The only efficient and effective way by which the senior management of British Rail can visit various parts of the country is to use a special car. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] The answer is quite simple: if the management does not use a special car and has to travel solely by scheduled services, it would find itself getting off only at stations. It may have escaped hon. Gentlemen's attention that other facilities on the railways need inspection.